Thanks for the warm welcome.

You're suggesting that A lance when cut down ceases to be a lance. Mechanically speaking, I agree. Now that you've pointed it out, I can see the logical progression from javelin, to short spear, to long spear, to great spear, to lance, and finally to pike.

The other issue with cutting a "Lance" down to a "Spear" is the diameter and design. the lance near the back behind the usual guard is made slender and then has a large section that is typically fitted with a counterweight of metal. The Lance has an overall diameter of about 6" from the guard, tapering forward as it drops to the point where it's probably 2" and has a metal point. The design is for velocity Impact. Cutting it down 2" would really only make it useful as a set Pike. Trying to use it as a Spear and Pokeing it at an adversary would probably take a player a 17-18 strength to hold it and thrust it hard enough for the point to reach enough velocity to do damage, else bounce off unless they were charging. I've held a Lance in my hands, it's a b**** to bring the point up. There is a reason that they were designed to be held under the arm and tucked up along the rib cage and passively held as the rider roamed around looking for a target. Also note, they were designed for a single thrust, as the length of wood was typically a softwood, Pine, etc, as Imagine what strength it would take to hold up a 20" long 6" round piece of Oak!! The reason for the Single thrust design is as a lance, they were designed to Impale. and there was little chance of pulling it back out of the opponent in time to use it a second time, hence the reason they have squires and armsmen that would carry extra weapons into battle for their night. But you're talking High Medevil when you get there. In the Darker ages, the Nights/Fighters in armor would Lance on the first charge and drop it in preference of a Horsemance mace Flail or Axe next, then move onto a Longsword, If knocked off their horse they would use any of their weapons they still had. If losing their shield they would draw a knife or any other weapon they had left...

If you need a spear, You'd be much better off going into a wooded area, cutting a long straight sapling, and cutting it down...

I've also used spears of 9" and 14" in a battle line wearing real armor and padded tips, in a fight with about 5,000 people on each side. Not a chance in hell even as big and burly as I am, would I even think about trying that with a Lance cut down...

Ya, I was one of those Crazy recreation guys... Huzzah!!!

Last edited by BlackKnight (2/01/2023 10:56 pm)

Timbo Baggins wrote:

Thanks for this very informative reply. Let me get this straight, you're suggesting that the text is misleading and is infact stating that lances cannot be used one-handed while afoot or cut down to a manageable length.

I'm applying real-world experience to the thought of cutting down a lance to use as a spear. There are other "Lance" designs. Some of which may actually not have the heavy counterweight design, nor a larger diameter. more like a very long spear as a design, but again they were designed for a single attack (charge), and like the larger diameter design (the High Middle Ages Design) would be dropped after that attack. So point design does not have such an obtuse angle as a traditional spear, and If using a "Lance as a Spear, you would have to be holding it rather far forward, and thrusting would have to be Extra hard (High Strength).

Examples below. only a couple of lance designs of this sample would actually have the tin enough girth to be usable as a normal spear, and it would have to be cut to almost a short spear (not 2", but 3" cut to be in front of the guard).

Last edited by BlackKnight (2/02/2023 9:17 am)

Blackadder23 wrote:

Since Hyperborea has more of a Classical flavor than some other settings, I always pictured a "lance" as being more like a xyston or kontos than a medieval lance with a guard. Either of those weapons could a lot more credibly be cut down to a shorter length and still used.

I can see that. But when I hear the term lance, the thing that pops in my head is the more Mid/High middle ages forms...

Both of those examples could easily be just cut shorter, Hell they could be used as is if you just choke up on them as they have no guards...
 

Jimm.Iblis wrote:

Blackadder23 wrote:

"lance" as being more like a xyston or kontos than a medieval lance with a guard.

Thank you! Everyone pictures Mediaeval Times jousting lances. I'm not a big "muh history" guy but this is one of those I do harp on a bit.
 

Yes, I answer to most of that LOL!!!