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1/18/2022 5:23 am  #1


Khopeshes and Rapiers

Didn't see them on the equipment list, and was a little surprised, but I assume they're around. My placements are tentative, I'm not incredibly familiar with the setting just yet.

I assume khopeshes would be Ixian weapons, given their real-world origins.
Khopesh | WC 2 | 30gp | 4 lbs. | 1d8 (1d10)
-Disarm attacks made with a khopesh are made at -2 (as a flail)

Not sure about rapiers, my feelings on their place in the setting is entirely based on Henry Kuttner's Elak of Atlantis so that seems like as good a place as any to start, and probably spreading out to the Greeks and other ocean-going cultures.
Rapier | WC 2 | 40gp | 4 lbs. | 1d8
-A rapier master fighting with a rapier in one hand and a WC 1 weapon in the other treats the rapier as a WC 1 weapon for purposes of "to hit" penalties.

Also considered the shotel, not sure how that would reach Hyperborea barring a previously unknown population transfer though.

 

1/18/2022 7:14 am  #2


Re: Khopeshes and Rapiers

The damage for the rapier seems a little high: 1d6 seems more "realistic", unless you're going for something more like an estoc?


"Rhialto said sternly: 'Sarsem, your conduct has been less than wise. Need I remind you of this?'
'You need say nothing! In sheer disgust, discharge me from my indenture! The humiliation will be an overwhelming punishment.'
'We are not so cruel,' said Ildefonse."
Jack Vance, Rhialto the Marvellous
 

1/18/2022 1:58 pm  #3


Re: Khopeshes and Rapiers

We do have a sickle sword, which is sufficiently a khopesh, IMO. Rapier would not be a bad addition. I've thought about it before. 


HYPERBOREA- A Role-Playing Game of Swords, Sorcery, and Weird Science-Fantasy
 

1/18/2022 4:07 pm  #4


Re: Khopeshes and Rapiers

rhialto wrote:

The damage for the rapier seems a little high: 1d6 seems more "realistic", unless you're going for something more like an estoc?

I was thinking of that (I started with 3e where it's 1d6, I keep on being surprised when I don't see it in the OSR equipment lists to be honest, but then I look at the list in like, UA and realise they're not there either), but I based it off the rapier from the old free 2e Savage Coast book where they're 1d6+1 which, looking at the list of equipment, isn't really something that Hyperborea does so I figured it'd make more sense to go up one level (plus, assuming I did the math right, the average damage between 1d6+1 and 1d8 should be roughly the same?).

Edit: It makes some sense to me, they are precise strikes so I can believe that you're more likely to hit something good, though I could see that as being an argument for 1d6 and some kind of critical hit bonus.

Ghul wrote:

We do have a sickle sword, which is sufficiently a khopesh, IMO. Rapier would not be a bad addition. I've thought about it before. 

Hm, I have been slightly over-estimating the size of the khopesh as it turns out, though its description as a sword/battle-axe makes me think of it as a heavier weapon which is why I put it more in line with the long sword/battle axe. Plus I do like giving it a bonus to disarming attacks, but I just think that's a fun thing.

Last edited by Carnby (1/18/2022 4:55 pm)

     Thread Starter
 

1/18/2022 5:32 pm  #5


Re: Khopeshes and Rapiers

Carnby wrote:

rhialto wrote:

The damage for the rapier seems a little high: 1d6 seems more "realistic", unless you're going for something more like an estoc?

I was thinking of that (I started with 3e where it's 1d6, I keep on being surprised when I don't see it in the OSR equipment lists to be honest, but then I look at the list in like, UA and realise they're not there either), but I based it off the rapier from the old free 2e Savage Coast book where they're 1d6+1 which, looking at the list of equipment, isn't really something that Hyperborea does so I figured it'd make more sense to go up one level (plus, assuming I did the math right, the average damage between 1d6+1 and 1d8 should be roughly the same?).

Edit: It makes some sense to me, they are precise strikes so I can believe that you're more likely to hit something good, though I could see that as being an argument for 1d6 and some kind of critical hit bonus.

I think your other rule (about the rapier counting as just a WC1 weapon for two-weapon fighting penalties) balances out its 1d6 damage: easier to hit with, but still less than a long/broad sword in damage (aside: there is no mechanical difference between long and broad swords in Hyperborea).


"Rhialto said sternly: 'Sarsem, your conduct has been less than wise. Need I remind you of this?'
'You need say nothing! In sheer disgust, discharge me from my indenture! The humiliation will be an overwhelming punishment.'
'We are not so cruel,' said Ildefonse."
Jack Vance, Rhialto the Marvellous
 

1/18/2022 6:05 pm  #6


Re: Khopeshes and Rapiers

rhialto wrote:

I think your other rule (about the rapier counting as just a WC1 weapon for two-weapon fighting penalties) balances out its 1d6 damage: easier to hit with, but still less than a long/broad sword in damage (aside: there is no mechanical difference between long and broad swords in Hyperborea).

Ah, that's reasonable, yeah.

     Thread Starter
 

1/18/2022 8:36 pm  #7


Re: Khopeshes and Rapiers

I have very similar mechanics for khopesh, even with the same footnote that it disarms as a flail. Great minds...
As far as rapier, I don't have those but I do have estoc (tuck), 1d6 damage, WC 2, fights as long sword. Their "thing" is that they ignore 1 DR.


"Role-playing isn't storytelling. If the dungeon master is directing it, it's not a game."  ~ Gary Gygax
 

1/19/2022 7:05 am  #8


Re: Khopeshes and Rapiers

Jimm.Iblis wrote:

As far as rapier, I don't have those but I do have estoc (tuck), 1d6 damage, WC 2, fights as long sword. Their "thing" is that they ignore 1 DR.

Nice idea, and models the estoc's armor-piercing design. https://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/smile.png

 


"Rhialto said sternly: 'Sarsem, your conduct has been less than wise. Need I remind you of this?'
'You need say nothing! In sheer disgust, discharge me from my indenture! The humiliation will be an overwhelming punishment.'
'We are not so cruel,' said Ildefonse."
Jack Vance, Rhialto the Marvellous
 

1/19/2022 10:52 pm  #9


Re: Khopeshes and Rapiers

I've got so many Arms & Equipment guides from 1-3.5 editions of D&D and many other systems, so I usually will let my players choose what they think would be appropriate for their Culture and translate it in if I agree. I probably wouldn't allow a Norseman to ask for a Flamberge, but someone of Germanic/Prussian/Carolingian Frank I could definitely see using one if that were their choice... 

But even I have Limits... I don't think I'd be allowing any sets of Full Maximillian Plate armor from 15th century Germany... 


-- 
BlackKnight, AKA Sausage
Older than Dirt, Crusty, and set in my ways. Been playing TTRPGs for over 45 years...
 

2/01/2022 9:35 pm  #10


Re: Khopeshes and Rapiers

BlackKnight wrote:

But even I have Limits... I don't think I'd be allowing any sets of Full Maximillian Plate armor from 15th century Germany... 

That said, a 15th century Imperial Knight going back to his family's robber baron roots now that he's free of Imperial oversight would make a fun enemy, with a great reward at the end.

I mentioned the shotel, I think it's a fun weapon that fits as a larger example of the falcata-type (I figure the larger Dacian falx would fall under this banner too). I'm thinking, essentially, that it's a bastard sword-type that trades the higher damage potential for more specialised uses, as it was effective in getting around shields and dismounting riders. Not sure about exact damage numbers, I've tentatively considered 1d6 (1d8 or 2d4) and considered mastery doing something, though I'm not sure what it'd do.

Shotel | WC 3 | 40gp | 5 lbs. | 1d8 (2d4)
-Ignores AC Bonus provided by opponent's shield (if any)
-Weapon has a 4-in-6 chance to dismount a rider on a natural 19 or 20 attack roll

As for where they come from, I assume falx-types are occasionally sported by Romans. If placing shotels specifically, with the culture that implies, I'd tentatively place them in the area between the Red Desert, the Lizard Coast, and the Black Forest. Less than a century ago (the second native-born generation is coming of age about now), a motley group of Ge'ez speaking, anti-Aksumite rebels arrived in Hyperborea while escaping a larger force. Without the Kingdom of Aksum to unite them, they have split into numerous small, bickering communities that largely survive on agriculture and mercenary work. Originally composed of Christian, Jewish, and Pagan elements, most have adopted the surrounding religions and have, since the founding of Larchmere Yys, quickly taken to the worship of Apollo, particularly in the northern territories. While currently still culturally distinct, these communities are quickly being absorbed into the surrounding cultures; while many still know Ge'ez, it is no longer the primary language in most communities, with Common being most common in the north and a somewhat divergent form of Goidelic Keltic (written in Ge'ez script, one of its few holdouts) in the south. It is likely that within a couple more generations they will have been completely absorbed into the surrounding cultures. A few of the oldest generation, those who first came to Hyperborea, still live and hold to their old beliefs, though most of them have retired into religious hermitage, often in the Red Desert.

Just something small that can fit in without radically upsetting the area, though placement is, as I mentioned, tentative. I think the tradition of Desert Fathers is a fun one, which is why I tried to place them next to a desert, and if you've ever read the El Borak story "Blood of the Gods", I think you could make a real fun sword and sorcery adventure from that religious hermitage.

And here are the original weapons with some revisions (shortening the khopesh and dropping the rapier damage to 1d6 as discussed)

Khopesh | WC 1 | 30gp | 4 lbs. | 1d8 (1d10)
-Disarm attacks made with a khopesh are made at -2 (as a flail)

Rapier | WC 2 | 40gp | 4 lbs. | 1d6
-A rapier master fighting with a rapier in one hand and a WC 1 weapon in the other treats the rapier as a WC 1 weapon for the purposes of "to hit" penalties.

     Thread Starter
 

2/02/2022 10:09 am  #11


Re: Khopeshes and Rapiers

As an aside, I seem to recall that in AD&D 2E, for the rapier you used your dex "to hit" modifier instead of str. I could be wrong, I'd have to check it out.


HYPERBOREA- A Role-Playing Game of Swords, Sorcery, and Weird Science-Fantasy
 

2/02/2022 7:57 pm  #12


Re: Khopeshes and Rapiers

Ghul wrote:

As an aside, I seem to recall that in AD&D 2E, for the rapier you used your dex "to hit" modifier instead of str. I could be wrong, I'd have to check it out.

I think that was when they started with "Weapon Finesse" and such. but may have started in 2nd/3rd Ed...
 


-- 
BlackKnight, AKA Sausage
Older than Dirt, Crusty, and set in my ways. Been playing TTRPGs for over 45 years...
 

2/02/2022 7:59 pm  #13


Re: Khopeshes and Rapiers

Found this in the 3.5 SRD
"RapierYou can use the Weapon Finesse feat to apply your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier to attack rolls with a rapier sized for you, even though it isn’t a light weapon for you. You can’t wield a rapier in two hands in order to apply 1½ times your Strength bonus to damage."


-- 
BlackKnight, AKA Sausage
Older than Dirt, Crusty, and set in my ways. Been playing TTRPGs for over 45 years...
 

2/09/2022 7:25 am  #14


Re: Khopeshes and Rapiers

The khopesh is in Unearthed Arcana, doing 2d4 (vs small/medium), which seems sensible given its axe-like qualities. I’d also suggest using this for swords such as the Canaanite style sickle sword given similarities with the Khopesh (I assume they are related weapons).  For the smaller agricultural-type sickle, 1d4 seems sensible.

 

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