I took "certain subclasses" to be a reference to the fact that two cleric subclasses (monks and druids) aren't able to turn undead at all. I would give the bonus to all of them that can (and also necromancers and paladins - basically, if you can turn undead, you get the bonus).

Hopefully Jeff will chime in with an "official" clarification.
EDIT: And I guess runegravers also cannot turn undead.

Last edited by Blackadder23 (2/24/2018 2:19 pm)

I don't think clerics get a turning bonus for being persuasive; I think it's more along the lines of "more forceful personality = more ability to channel divine wrath".

francisca wrote:

From the book, emphasis mine:

Undead Turning Adjustment: A modifier applied to turn undead attempts made by clerics and certain subclasses.

However, none of the sub-classes with Turning Ability list this bonus as applicable under the description of their turning ability .

I'm inclined to give it to all of them, but would appreciate it if one or more of you could double-check and correct me if I am wrong about none of the sub-classes explicitly listing it.

Normally, I'd say, "if it ain't there, you don't get it."  But, Ghul took pains to explicitly say whether or not sub-classes get extra spells due to high ability scores, so I suspect this may be an oversight.

The Cha bonus is not listed under the base Cleric class either.  I would assume that the bonus is only given to those classes that turn undead, Cleric, Priest, and Shaman.

Blackadder23 wrote:

I don't think clerics get a turning bonus for being persuasive; I think it's more along the lines of "more forceful personality = more ability to channel divine wrath".

Nah. Pass.

Blackadder23 wrote:

francisca wrote:

mabon5127 wrote:

The Cha bonus is not listed under the base Cleric class either.  I would assume that the bonus is only given to those classes that turn undead, Cleric, Priest, and Shaman.

Paladin, too.  Which is what started this with me.

Also necromancers. And purloiners.

(I think that's all of them.)
 

This would be useful to know before my Ixian necromant next delves into Foolsgrave, since CHA is her high stat! :D

Allan.

Unless the character type has already the ability to turn undead, they should not be allowed to turn undead based on their high Charisma. The ability to turn Undead is based on your connection to your Deity/Religion, and not directly because of your charisma. The Charisma bonus in relation to Turning is the ability to influence/believability of righteousness, without the connection to the Deity/religion you can be greatly convincing, but without the power backing you (kind of like doing social engineering, you can fake it great, but have no background to verify if called onto the carpet). Would you give a Bard with an 18 charisma the ability to turn undead?

The bonus to turning is an addition to your Turn level, in the case of a character class like Paladin, who does not get turning till after 1st level, they "may" be able depending on the DM's home rules, but that should only be because he will eventually have that ability and Do already have a connection to their Diety/Religion. In the afore mentioned question on Bard, the turn ability could be added to say, the ability to sway an audience of your singing/playing..

BlackKnight wrote:

Unless the character type has already the ability to turn undead, they should not be allowed to turn undead based on their high Charisma. The ability to turn Undead is based on your connection to your Deity/Religion, and not directly because of your charisma. The Charisma bonus in relation to Turning is the ability to influence/believability of righteousness, without the connection to the Deity/religion you can be greatly convincing, but without the power backing you (kind of like doing social engineering, you can fake it great, but have no background to verify if called onto the carpet). Would you give a Bard with an 18 charisma the ability to turn undead?

The bonus to turning is an addition to your Turn level, in the case of a character class like Paladin, who does not get turning till after 1st level, they "may" be able depending on the DM's home rules, but that should only be because he will eventually have that ability and Do already have a connection to their Diety/Religion. In the afore mentioned question on Bard, the turn ability could be added to say, the ability to sway an audience of your singing/playing..

Who is suggesting that a high Charisma would allow a character to turn undead, if they didn't have that as part of their class abilities?  Certainly not me.

francisca wrote:

DMPrata wrote:

Any cleric, paladin, necromancer, priest, shaman, or purloiner with 15+ CH gains a +1 bonus, as noted under VOL. III, p. 253: Table 94. The phrase “certain subclasses” was meant to indicate that not all cleric subclasses have the turn undead​ ability, and some non-cleric subclasses do. Sorry if the intent was unclear.

Thanks for the clarification!

Yes, thanks, David.