HYPERBOREA / Death Soldiers, Fire Lords, etc.

**Posted by Handy Haversack** 8/22/2014 7:36 am

So, this came up while I was out in Michigan and offline and introducing a friend to the game. He rolled up a Fire Lord (Warlock specializing as a Pyromancer). I wasn't sure which, if any benefits he ought to get from the Pyromancer write-up. This also managed to roll off my brain when one of my players rolled up a death soldier. I think at the time I let him have the +2 on saves from both the Necromancer and Warlock descriptions. Soberer(ish) reflection led me to think that maybe that extra save bonus should have kicked in at third level.

Anyway, I'm not clear on the other class special abilities and whether they come over fully--the Pyromancer's hand candle and fire affinity, the Necromancer's command undead ability.

Ghul, what was your original thinking?

Others, how have you played it?

I'm tempted to give the Class Abilities straight off and let the save bonus kick in later. That is, Warlocks get +2 for Transformation and Sorcery. A Fire Lord would add +2 vs. device at 3rd, and a Death Soldier +2 vs. Death at 3rd.

**Posted by Blackadder23** 8/22/2014 9:05 am

You'd have to ask Jeff to be sure, I don't believe warlocks are supposed to get any benefits from those other classes. They just happen to be able to cast the same spells.

Similarly, a shaman doesn't get any special druid or necromancer abilities just because she can cast the same type of spells. Or at least I don't think that was the intention.

Last edited by Blackadder23 (8/22/2014 9:11 am)

**Posted by joseph** 8/22/2014 9:09 am

My two cents... I would only allow that the character receives the benefits of the warlock class. As a Fire Lord or Death Soldier the character gets to pick spells from a different list. Pretty sure that's it. Consider that if you give a specialized warlock the benefits of one of the other classes, it erodes the uniqueness of the other class.

I might consider replacing one of the save bonuses, but not stacking them all together.

Last edited by joseph (8/22/2014 9:11 am)

**Posted by Blackadder23** 8/22/2014 9:15 am

joseph wrote:
Consider that if you give a specialized warlock the benefits of one of the other classes, it erodes the uniqueness of the other class.

It would also make it foolish to play a magician warlock when you could get necromancer, pyromancer, or cryomancer abilities and save bonuses at no extra cost.

**Posted by Handy Haversack** 8/22/2014 11:14 am

I hear what you guys are saying. That does make sense ... but the hand candle! The hand candle! It has no game effect at all (unless you count "Come on, can't I light him on fire with my hand candle?" "...No" as a game effect). I kind of feel like if you go around calling yourself a Fire Lord and can't even manage a decent hand candle, you're going to get beat up on the playground at Adventurer High.

And of course, the Death Soldier's heartache at knowing she will never cast Gelatinize Bones is the subject of many bardic threnodies in my Hyperborea.

**Posted by Ghul** 8/22/2014 5:36 pm

BTB, I'm afraid these fellows are correct, Handy, but have at it and enjoy those hand candle fire lords! ;)

**Posted by Handy Haversack** 8/26/2014 8:33 am

Ghul wrote:
BTB, I'm afraid these fellows are correct, Handy, but have at it and enjoy those hand candle fire lords! ;)

Let's burn this mother down!

OK, OK. I get it. This is the last time I try to help the players. I gotta remember which side I'm on!

**Posted by Ghul** 8/26/2014 10:32 am

It's OK. Dave Prata once told me he DMed Tomb of Horrors and there wasn't a single PC death, so at the worst, you're only the second softest DM, Handy! ;)

**Posted by Handy Haversack** 8/26/2014 3:20 pm

We'll settle this at GaryCon. I'll be running a little game called Hand Candles at Dawn, Wisconsin-Style!

**Posted by gizmomathboy** 3/18/2016 6:22 pm

Just to give Handy some support I am house ruling as well that firelords get candle as well. I like the flavor it adds to the pyromancer and want that with the firelords as well.

**Posted by grodog** 3/19/2016 1:10 pm

Ghul wrote:
It's OK. Dave Prata once told me he DMed Tomb of Horrors and there wasn't a single PC death, so at the worst, you're only the second softest DM, Handy! ;)

LOL!