HYPERBOREA / Casting in melee?

**Posted by Sasquatch** 7/30/2021 11:52 pm

I went and got myself confused.

I'm rolling up a Warlock and was digging into how it would work mechanically.
I found out that they are not inhibited by armor for casting in light and medium armor (the only armor Warlock allows) *Armored Sorcerers p140*

Then I read that to cast a spell, shields should be shouldered, weapons sheathed or dropped. You are also considered 'hindered' -2 AC. *Spell Casting p139*

How would say, a Warlock, with a sword (no shield) and an instantaneous touch attack like Shocking Grasp work? I can't seem to find any exceptions for "fighter/mage" hybrids casting in melee, except for clerics. Would the sword need to first be dropped or sheathed, and then a touch attack made? Would you rule that for such a spell, one hand is sufficient? That round's phases for the touch attack would be spent as Cast/Hold, or Hold/Cast, correct?

Let me know what you think!

**Posted by Blackadder23** 7/31/2021 12:08 am

I would not allow a warlock (or any class or subclass that uses magician type spells) to cast with weapons or shield in hand. All must be sheathed or slung on the back, dropped, etc. Only clerics and druids (and those using their spells) can cast with weapon in hand, as mentioned in the rules. Spell casting in melee is supposed to be a fraught affair.

**Posted by Sasquatch** 7/31/2021 1:16 am

It was my imagination that betrayed me here. When I first read Warlock, that they could be Cyro/Pyro/Necro the first thing I imagined was a nasty scimitar and a STANKY hand (touch attacks). :D

How do you treat sheathing/unsheathing in terms of the phases? Would you allow an unsheathing and a attack similar to the 1/2 move and attack? Or a phase 1 sheathing and a phase 2 cast?

Last edited by Sasquatch (7/31/2021 2:11 am)

**Posted by Blackadder23** 7/31/2021 1:11 pm

If you're running a game you can of course allow warlocks to cast while armed if you want.

I don't really use two separate phases (and neither will the new edition, apparently), but I personally would allow stowing weapons and casting spells in the same round if the caster didn't also try to move.

**Posted by Chainsaw** 7/31/2021 7:36 pm

Blackadder23 wrote:
I personally would allow stowing weapons and casting spells in the same round if the caster didn't also try to move.

Exactly how I'd do it.

**Posted by BlackKnight** 8/01/2021 6:30 pm

Chainsaw wrote:
Blackadder23 wrote:
I personally would allow stowing weapons and casting spells in the same round if the caster didn't also try to move.
Exactly how I'd do it.

I'll Second/Third that...
Casting requires the caster's hands, not hand. Having something in hand would cause them to be hindered.

**Posted by Vetus Miles** 7/24/2024 10:58 am

Here’s a warlock question. If a warlock gets up in level to have 2 attacks. Can one be the casting of a spell and the other a melee attack?

I’m going to guess no one would allow the casting of 2 spells. I wouldn’t.

**Posted by BlackKnight** 7/24/2024 11:49 am

Vetus Miles wrote:
Here’s a warlock question. If a warlock gets up in level to have 2 attacks. Can one be the casting of a spell and the other a melee attack?

I’m going to guess no one would allow the casting of 2 spells. I wouldn’t.

Multiple melee attacks, yes. Two spells No. Spells require time and it takes a full round to cast a single one (some even take more than one), multiple melee attacks in a round are representative of Physical prowess, and thus the extra attacks in a round as you level and gain skill and speed...

**Posted by rhialto** 7/25/2024 11:10 am

Under most circumstances, I wouldn't permit a spell and a single attack combination. One spell, never combined with any attack, or multiple attacks: casting and attacking are two exclusive options, and can't be combined, in my opinion.

However, the case of something like Shocking Grasp is interesting: would it allow for an attack which misses, then a second attack? I'm not sure where I come down there, but still inclined to rule: melee or magic, pick one per round.

**Posted by Vetus Miles** 7/25/2024 8:08 pm

BlackKnight wrote:
Vetus Miles wrote:
Here’s a warlock question. If a warlock gets up in level to have 2 attacks. Can one be the casting of a spell and the other a melee attack?

I’m going to guess no one would allow the casting of 2 spells. I wouldn’t.
Multiple melee attacks, yes. Two spells No. Spells require time and it takes a full round to cast a single one (some even take more than one), multiple melee attacks in a round are representative of Physical prowess, and thus the extra attacks in a round as you level and gain skill and speed...

I totally understand what you are saying rules and mechanics wise.

You could use that argument with any skill. As people get more experience and time doing a skill they become more efficient with the skill they are far above someone just starting out in that skill.

Why wouldn’t magic be any different?

Of course we know why. It’s a game bound by rules and mechanics. If we don’t have some rules then chaos will rule!

Thanks for your opinions though. I like to see what others are doing in order to get ideas and best practices.

**Posted by gizmomathboy** 7/26/2024 8:45 am

The casting of a spell takes the whole round or whatever.

However, for something like Shocking Grasp I think I would rule that you could try to Grasp and attack, but the round after you cast the spell.

You are holding on to it. I have a death lord that some times does Spectral Hand and Shocking Grasp cast back to back. I don't know if I would allow an attack, starting in the round after the Grasp is cast, for a touch attack and a melee attack. I think I would want to reread Spectral Hand again.