HYPERBOREA / Will WotC destroying the previous ODL sink Hyperborea?

**Posted by Spellbinder** 1/09/2023 4:13 am

It is pretty clear now all through the hobby that WotC is planning to also tank the previous OGL 1.0 and with it, possibly all the OGL products currently available. Do we think this will have an impact on Hyperborea and if so, does that possibly mean Jeffrey will consider a translation/version of Hyperborea in my favorite sword & sorcery system of all time, Barbarians of Lemuria?

**Posted by lykathea** 1/09/2023 8:13 am

May be duplicative of conversation started: https://hyperborea.boardhost.com/viewtopic.php?id=1663

**Posted by Jimm.Iblis** 1/15/2023 5:17 pm

I seriously doubt that even if Wiz can de-authorize OGL1a and prevent it's use despite section 9, which actual lawyers say they can't, that Jeff will start publishing under an entirely different and incompatible ruleset.
You'd be the only one happy with it if he did.

**Posted by Vetus Miles** 1/15/2023 6:48 pm

Yeah sheesh, I just found out about Hyperborea around Christmas. I dove in, love what I saw and read of the game and mechanics. I watched reviews and interviews on YouTube. As soon as Jeff started name dropping REH, CAS, HP Lovecraft, Fritz Lieber, I was like “Sold!!! Where do I buy this at! Please, take my moneys!!!”

Then I get all this stuff I ordered, btw nice damn made books, totally dig the art, and bam!!! WokeC comes out and scares the crap out of me! I get all scared my new game world which I totally dig, with the mechanics close to what I grew up with, 1 and 2 ad&d, are about to be taken away.

I’ve been pretty upset about that. Hopefully it’s blowing over. I’d hate to lose this great system I’m learning. Even though the curve is small since it’s all so familiar to me. That’s the other thing I love!

The ac hit system still basically makes my mind think thaco. Unlike the younger gen, I love thaco, it makes sense to my brain!

Anyway, thanks to Jeff for a great setting and keeping the old school stuff alive. Totally enthused about it!

Happy to be on here.

**Posted by Spellbinder** 1/16/2023 9:40 am

Not asking to change the main system per sé, I was thinking it would be cool to have the option of the alt system as an option. Barbarians of Lemuria is the best sword & sorcery ruleset in existence.

**Posted by Spellbinder** 1/16/2023 9:45 am

Jimm.Iblis wrote:
I seriously doubt that even if Wiz can de-authorize OGL1a and prevent it's use despite section 9, which actual lawyers say they can't, that Jeff will start publishing under an entirely different and incompatible ruleset.
You'd be the only one happy with it if he did.

Several lawyers believe WotC absolutely could win in court. Not only do they have more money than anyone else to litigate this till their competition runs out of money, but they also had the word "authorize" in the original OGL language. Due to that loophole, they are able to claim they no longer authorize OGL 1.0 and that the new OGL 2.0 now replaces it, due to it no longer being authorized any longer. You only had the right to use it as long as it was authorized by WotC. It would be up to the court to decide whether this argument was legit enough or not but some lawyers claimed they could definitely see a path to that being a winning argument in a court of law, especially with Hasbro's cash behind them.

Here is a lawyer and personal friend/frequent guest guest of Rekieta Law, who is also a gamer discussing all this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_dVH-0Yf8o&ab_channel=RollofLaw

Last edited by Spellbinder (1/16/2023 9:59 am)

**Posted by gizmomathboy** 1/16/2023 9:50 am

You can't copyright game mechanics.

The OGL gave people mostly nothing they didn't already have.

Ghul isn't using WotC/Hasbro IP in his game.

Ghul could rip out the page with the OGL on it and he would be ok.

That's my opinion, I'm not a lawyer, and I'm not the one standing in the line of fire.

Paizo created a new license that might be better. Who knows.

I think Hypeborea isn't going anywhere or needs much if any changing.

**Posted by Spellbinder** 1/16/2023 9:58 am

The game mechanics thing is true but only to an extent. I suggest giving a listen to Roll of Law that I linked to above. He has extensive videos on this subject and he is a lifelong gamer. There are some potentially unsafe practices that could get you swatted, even with game mechanics. One way is if you use terms that are used in WotC products such as AC, Difficulty Class, Saving Throw, etc. That can most definitely get you swatted. Also, anything that touches upon their specific lore, such as a Beholder in your game or a mention of a Chromatic Dragon, etc.

Last edited by Spellbinder (1/16/2023 10:00 am)

**Posted by Jimm.Iblis** 1/16/2023 2:58 pm

gizmomathboy wrote:
You can't copyright game mechanics. The OGL gave people mostly nothing they didn't already have.

Have you read Neil Gaiman's take? He is in agreement with you, or actually the OGL gave people less than they already had.
https://www.tumblr.com/neil-gaiman/tagged/OGL?mibextid=Zxz2cZ

Last edited by Jimm.Iblis (1/16/2023 2:58 pm)

**Posted by ALCAVDON** 1/16/2023 5:02 pm

Will AS&SH migrate to another rule system because of the Hasbro/WotC's d*ck move?

**Posted by Blackadder23** 1/16/2023 7:25 pm

Spellbinder wrote:
The game mechanics thing is true but only to an extent. I suggest giving a listen to Roll of Law that I linked to above. He has extensive videos on this subject and he is a lifelong gamer. There are some potentially unsafe practices that could get you swatted, even with game mechanics. One way is if you use terms that are used in WotC products such as AC, Difficulty Class, Saving Throw, etc. That can most definitely get you swatted. Also, anything that touches upon their specific lore, such as a Beholder in your game or a mention of a Chromatic Dragon, etc.

"Armor Class" and "Saving Throw" are wargaming terms that long predate any version of D&D. I would love to see WotC defend in court how they "own" them. They are welcome to "Difficulty Class" and any other garbage they invented for their versions of so-called D&D (although I have in fact seen that term used in earlier games - maybe someone should sue them).

**Posted by BlackKnight** 1/16/2023 9:35 pm

Blackadder23 wrote:
Spellbinder wrote:
The game mechanics thing is true but only to an extent. I suggest giving a listen to Roll of Law that I linked to above. He has extensive videos on this subject and he is a lifelong gamer. There are some potentially unsafe practices that could get you swatted, even with game mechanics. One way is if you use terms that are used in WotC products such as AC, Difficulty Class, Saving Throw, etc. That can most definitely get you swatted. Also, anything that touches upon their specific lore, such as a Beholder in your game or a mention of a Chromatic Dragon, etc.
"Armor Class" and "Saving Throw" are wargaming terms that long predate any version of D&D. I would love to see WotC defend in court how they "own" them. They are welcome to "Difficulty Class" and any other garbage they invented for their versions of so-called D&D (although I have in fact seen that term used in earlier games - maybe someone should sue them).

Agreed, Prior Art should always thwart Copyrighting A$$Hats. Hopefully, they don't buy the court systems..