HYPERBOREA / flotsam and jetsam amidst the Black Gulf

**Posted by francisca** 5/14/2014 2:26 pm

I know some other person started in on project to do so, but I'm getting ready to embark on tossing Greyhawk into the Black Gulf.

The general ideas and guiding principles are listed below.
1) Use AS&SoH as the base rules, augmented with:
--exceptional STR for Fighters, per Supplement I: Greyhawk
--a handful of extra spells, magic items, and artifacts found in AD&D

2) Use AS&SoH creatures where possible
--Fishmen for Kuo Toa, etc...

3) Demi-humans have gotten even more xenophobic and distrustful of human folk. In addition, they are getting weirder and more sinister.
--Elves are more akin to Poul Anderson's elves from The Broken Sword
--Dwarves are craven grifters
--Halfling are untrustworthy thieves
--NO DEMI-HUMAN PCs

4) The shift into the Gulf is total. From the persepctive of the inhabitants, they've always been surrounded by the black gulf. As such, lots of things about history have been modifed.
--The Rain of Colorless fire and Invoked Devistation still happened, but differently. (Think a thousands of Black Dragons causing the Rain of Colorless fire....)
--Many races have been corrupted by the energies of the black gulf. I'm looking at you, Drow.

5) Greyhawk...which I'll be calling Blackhawk...is a relative new-comer to the black gulf. Therefore, there is somewhat less variance among the ecosystem that Hyperborea.
--S3 is in, but probably not much other tech

6) Populations in general, but especially demi-humans, are generally lower than canon Greyhawk.
--much is in ruins. I'm slapping B2 down into Greyhawk, but it's going to be the "Haunted Keep on the Borderlands", and in ruins.
--demi-humans are dying off
--really, the world in is a state of decay

7) Specific subclasses will be tied to regions/cultures.
--Illusionists and Necromancers will mostly hail from the East/Great Kingdom areas.
--Cryomancers are from the Barbarian tribes and the Land of Black Ice
--Pyromancers are from the West (Ket, etc..)
--Standard magicians are your "mid-lands" types: Furyondy, Greyhawk, etc..

8) Gods will be a mish mash of standard Greyhawk fare and AS&SoH sources.

9) I'll build out of the 1980 Folio edition of Greyhawk, and borrow from other sources if needed.
--Elements of the following modules are to be included: A1-4, B2, B4, X1, X2, C1, C2, G1-3, D1-3, WG4, WG5, S1, S2, S3, S4, Bottle City and other Kuntz modules, and probably others.

More to come!

Oh, I'm also thinking about tossing Newhon into the black gulf as well....

Last edited by francisca (5/06/2015 8:39 am)

**Posted by Blackadder23** 5/14/2014 4:17 pm

Nice! Always good to see people using their imagination.

**Posted by Ghul** 5/14/2014 6:44 pm

Great post, Rich. Thanks for sharing! Gygaxian GH is very near and dear to my heart, so to see it mashed up with Hyperborea is exciting stuff to me. Keep us posted!

**Posted by Handy Haversack** 5/14/2014 8:31 pm

francisca, does this mean you're bringing dragons in? Not criticizing at all. I just kind of like that there are no dragons in Hyperborea--makes an important difference compared to most D&D realms.

But it sounds totally exciting. Are you slapping it down on top of the Hyperborea continent or is it elsewhere in the Black Gulf? Do the nightgaunts fly between them? 'Cause it sounds like the sort of thing they would do!

**Posted by francisca** 5/14/2014 9:14 pm

Handy Haversack wrote:
francisca, does this mean you're bringing dragons in? Not criticizing at all. I just kind of like that there are no dragons in Hyperborea--makes an important difference compared to most D&D realms.

Yup. It's Greyhawk, so there will be dragons. Nasty ones. Way tougher than OD&D/AD&D dragons.

But it sounds totally exciting. Are you slapping it down on top of the Hyperborea continent or is it elsewhere in the Black Gulf? Do the nightgaunts fly between them? 'Cause it sounds like the sort of thing they would do!

Somewhere in the nothingness of the black gulf. Theoretically, anything able to traverse the gulf wouldbe able to make it there. Navigating the infinite black is another matter entirely.

**Posted by Agricola** 5/15/2014 6:55 am

That is cool. So, is this a chunk of land mass floating within eyesight or telescope sight of Hyperborea?
Lot of potential you have there. My personal take is I like no demi humans and dragons in Hyperborea but I like how you have the demi humans becoming twisted and dark and dying and the dragons much nastier. Will Gold Dragons remain Lawful Good? What will the interplay be between the two continents? Solid observation from Handy Haversack regarding the Night Gaunts. Sounds good and look forward to what you develop.

**Posted by francisca** 5/15/2014 10:59 am

Agricola wrote:
That is cool. So, is this a chunk of land mass floating within eyesight or telescope sight of Hyperborea?

My initial thoughts are no, not really. But...certainly reachable.

Lot of potential you have there. My personal take is I like no demi humans and dragons in Hyperborea

I agree.

but I like how you have the demi humans becoming twisted and dark and dying and the dragons much nastier.

It's going to take some extensive re-working, but I think it will be worth it, in the end.

Will Gold Dragons remain Lawful Good?

I don't think there will be any good dragons left. perhaps they were hunted down and killed/sacrificed during the invoked devastation or rain of colorless fire. Or perhaps they parished when the events leading to greyhawk forking into this alternate reality transpired. Dunno yet. I'm not quite down to monstrous populations. Black, Red, probably Green will be present, but not in great numbers. They'll wake from time to time and ravage the country side, then disappear for decades. Occasionally, a brood will hatch and they will hungrilly attack whatever they see, and probably end up being dispatched by adventurers before reaching great size.

What will the interplay be between the two continents? Solid observation from Handy Haversack regarding the Night Gaunts. Sounds good and look forward to what you develop.

Is possible, but unprobable. Maybe after a few years of play.

**Posted by grodog** 5/19/2014 11:29 pm

francisca wrote:
3) Demi-humans have gotten even more xenophobic and distrustful of human folk. In addition, they are getting weirder and more sinister.
--Elves are more akin to Poul Anderson's elves from The Broken Sword

Nice: not quite Melniboneans, nor the elves from Orkworld, but still far from your average friendly faery.

francisca wrote:
--Halfling are untrustworthy thieves

Finieous!

francisca wrote:
--Many races have been corrupted by the energies of the black gulf. I'm looking at you, Drow.

I'll be curious to hear about your modifications there, Rich: I've broken drow down in to several different flavors/types/cultures (most are not Lolth-spider worshippers IMCs), so I'm always looking for interesting ways to keep them fresh.

This all sounds quite promising. Thanks for sharing! :D

**Posted by Druvas** 5/20/2014 8:44 am

Thoroughly fascinated by this idea. Do I see a future campaign setting in the works...?

I like the idea of it being viewable by telescope from Hyperborea, by the way. You should consider it. :-)

**Posted by francisca** 5/21/2014 8:15 am

Druvas wrote:
Thoroughly fascinated by this idea. Do I see a future campaign setting in the works...?

No way in hell. Too much OPIP tied up in it.

**Posted by Druvas** 5/21/2014 10:52 am

francisca wrote:
Druvas wrote:
Thoroughly fascinated by this idea. Do I see a future campaign setting in the works...?
No way in hell. Too much OPIP tied up in it.

Haha, I'm sure! Perhaps Blackhawk or some derivation is usable though. You might have to change the map and the names of the States, but you could do it! Just think about how Gary wrote the last few Gord novels. :-)

I was only sorta kidding anyway. It's nice not to capitalize on EVERYTHING. :-)

**Posted by francisca** 4/28/2015 1:13 pm

Been brainstorming on this lately.

Handy Haversack wrote:
francisca, does this mean you're bringing dragons in?

We have Pyro-Hydrae in Hyperborea. So, I'm going down the path using them for analogs for red dragons. The we can have Cryo-Hydrae (white), Swamp-Hydrae (Black), Forrest-Hydrae (Green), and Desert-Hydrae (Blue). All will be excedingly rare, sleep a lot, and are all the spawn of Tiamat. No good Hydrae, at all. Only "good" one is a dead one.

Further, I've decided to put Blackhawk in the same general neighborhood as Hyperborea, but perhaps shielded in some way. Maybe orbiting the Red Giant more or less opposite of Hyperborea (hard to be directly opposite in an eliptical orbit), or perhaps as a moon of Saturn, but more like a floating island sort of thing.

Last edited by francisca (4/28/2015 1:20 pm)

**Posted by Ghul** 4/28/2015 1:24 pm

Those are some fascinating ideas, francisca. Hell, in my own campaign, I see immediate usefulness for cryo-hydrae!

**Posted by francisca** 4/28/2015 1:37 pm

Ghul wrote:
Those are some fascinating ideas, francisca. Hell, in my own campaign, I see immediate usefulness for cryo-hydrae!

I think I'm going to make the Cryo-Hydrae furred, like the Newhonian Snow Serpent.

Probably make them all legged and winged, as well. Probably only four limbs, so they would end up sorta like a multi-headed Wyvern.

EDIT:

DUH. Gighorah.

Last edited by francisca (4/28/2015 2:05 pm)

**Posted by Handy Haversack** 4/28/2015 1:44 pm

francisca wrote:
Ghul wrote:
Those are some fascinating ideas, francisca. Hell, in my own campaign, I see immediate usefulness for cryo-hydrae!
I think I'm going to make the Cryo-Hydrae furred, like the Newhonian Snow Serpent.

Probably make them all legged and winged, as well. Probably only four limbs, so they would end up sorta like a multi-headed Wyvern.

I only fear that we'll all end up as such.

Cool bring-back, francisca! Are you already gaming in Blackhawk, or still stirring the pot?

**Posted by francisca** 4/28/2015 1:47 pm

Stirring the pot. Maybe something for next GaryCon. Maybe....

Something full of terrible death and even worse puns.... Perhaps the Egg of Loon is causing Trouble in the village of Omlet....

Hey Ghul, if you want to pick this thread up and move it elsewhere please do so, as it probably no longer fits in this category.

**Posted by Rastus_Burne** 5/01/2015 4:50 pm

Nice idea francisca. It's a good way to insert 'Greyhawk' in without it losing the Hyperboreaness! The telescope idea is really cool too.

**Posted by francisca** 5/06/2015 8:34 am

I neglected to clarify something:

francisca wrote:
3) Demi-humans have gotten even more xenophobic and distrustful of human folk. In addition, they are getting weirder and more sinister.
--Elves are more akin to Poul Anderson's elves from The Broken Sword
--Dwarves are craven grifters
--Halfling are untrustworthy thieves

--NO DEMI-HUMAN PCs.

**Posted by francisca** 5/28/2015 9:18 am

Been mentally wrasslin' with this again. I was eyeballing the Darlene maps, thinking....man...that's a lot of thinking and converting and rewrite of history. Even if I just put a big red X on every demi-human nation, and leave them for later development, I'm still looking at a fetric muckton of human nations.

Then grodog posted his colorized version of the Great Kingdom map on FB. Mmmmmm......

Last edited by francisca (5/28/2015 9:18 am)

**Posted by Blackadder23** 5/28/2015 9:29 am

Have you considered scrapping Greyhawk canon entirely, and just using the map? In other words, defining the nations and contents and history of the map however you like. It seems like starting from scratch would be simpler.