HYPERBOREA / Stacking Advanced Combat Actions

**Posted by gizmomathboy** 5/19/2021 12:26 pm

An interesting series of questions from a player of mine.

I'm fairly confident in my rules for the everything but the last one I'm not sure on. My thoughts on it below.An interesting series of questions from a player of mine.

I'm fairly confident in my rules for the everything but the last one I'm not sure on. My thoughts on it below.

me wrote:
player wrote:
Do these choices stack? A player in melee may fight conservatively to trade an attack penalty of 2 for a +1 AC boost. Clearly, you can do this while doing a regular attack, but can you also do so while dodging or parry-and-blocking, both giving a +2 AC? (Blocking also uses attack bonuses from strength as defense) Clearly, there is no attack, so that attack penalty is for naught. Basically, can I defend myself for AC +5?
Dodging forfeits all attacks so no Conservative Fighting.

Parrying and Blocking also forgoes attacking so no Conservative Fighting.

It does let you use your ST attack bonus to up your AC bonus however.

Of these 2 actions, Parrying and Blocking give you an AC +4 bonus

me wrote:
player wrote:
Can I parry and block at the same time I'm off-hand parrying? This would give me AC +6?
Off-Hand Weapon Parry has an attack component so one can't Parry and Block while also Off-Hand Weapon Parrying.

me wrote:
player wrote:
Granted, I'm not gonna hit anyone when doing that, but given studded leather gets me AC 6, I think I could drop to AC 0 and untouchably waste some attacker's time while the Berserker's killing everyone else in the room.
So, if you want to go into full defensive mode using Parry and Block you can get an effective AC 2.

me wrote:
player wrote:
And, in two-weapon fighting assuming a broad sword (wc 2) as primary and either a dagger or short sword as secondary (wc 1), I should get a -2 penalty for primary and a -1 for the secondary, without my strength bonus. If, instead, I use the secondary for off-hand parrying, do I then lose the -2, regain the strength bonus, and hit like a perfect physical specimen again?
I think if you do Off-Hand Weapon Parry you get the +1 AC bonus. "as normal" is where I think things turn. Is that "normal melee attack", or "normal Two-Weapon Fighting attack"?

Let me ponder that last one a bit.

As I wrote, that "as normal" is where the ambiguity resides.

I think I would lean towards "normal attack" so they get to use their ST attack bonus.

Or, is Off-Hand Parry only available for Two-Weapon Fighting capable folks?

**Posted by Blackadder23** 5/19/2021 1:30 pm

This is exactly why I don't use the predefined advanced combat actions. Players always looking for some loophole to get another +1 on something.

**Posted by Jimm.Iblis** 5/19/2021 4:02 pm

They ought to have the two-weapon penalty on the main attack. Otherwise, a knife is as effective as a small shield {edit: in mêlée} and that doesn't seem correct. But kudos to your player for taking the time to actually try and learn the rules. Too few seem to be doing that these days.

Last edited by Jimm.Iblis (5/19/2021 4:24 pm)

**Posted by gizmomathboy** 5/19/2021 7:40 pm

Jimm.Iblis wrote:
They ought to have the two-weapon penalty on the main attack. Otherwise, a knife is as effective as a small shield {edit: in mêlée} and that doesn't seem correct. But kudos to your player for taking the time to actually try and learn the rules. Too few seem to be doing that these days.

I generally don't do things unless the players also do them, so this also opens up possibilities for their opponents.

I had to read the actions because this is probably the first time a player used any advanced combat actions.

I can totally buy the argument that Off-Hand Parry is part of Two-Weapon Fighting.

**Posted by rhialto** **Online!** 5/20/2021 5:28 am

Yeah, this is why I avoid the Advanced Combat Actions (and my players haven't ever tried to use them, or read them). But, I think I'd rule you can only stack ACA's where explicitly stated (e.g., with Dodge and Fighting Withdrawal), so Off-Hand Parry provides the benefits listed within its description only, not stacked with Two-Weapon Fighting.

**Posted by gizmomathboy** 5/20/2021 7:31 am

rhialto wrote:
Yeah, this is why I avoid the Advanced Combat Actions (and my players haven't ever tried to use them, or read them). But, I think I'd rule you can only stack ACA's where explicitly stated (e.g., with Dodge and Fighting Withdrawal), so Off-Hand Parry provides the benefits listed within its description only, not stacked with Two-Weapon Fighting.

If you required Two-Weapon Fighting to use Off-Hand Parry then it becomes *worse* for the player/npc. This would mean that they can't use any ST bonus for attack *and* have a To-Hit penalty.

However, if you can't stack Two-Weapon Fighting with Off-Hand Parry then you get the AC Bonus *and* your normal attack gets any ST attack bonus and no To-Hit Penalty.

I'm not opposed to Advanced Combat Actions. As noted above it can cut both ways.

**Posted by DMPrata** 6/10/2021 5:42 pm

I’ve ruled that advanced combat actions can’t be stacked. The PC can perform one per round.

**Posted by gizmomathboy** 6/11/2021 6:58 am

DMPrata is harsh but fair

Last edited by gizmomathboy (6/11/2021 6:58 am)