HYPERBOREA / Monster Manual Dragons?

**Posted by WARDUKE** 2/27/2020 9:06 am

Hi all,

Has anyone converted over the various AD&D Monster Manual Dragons to AS&SoH?

Growing up, my idea of Swords & Sorcery was not only influenced by Howard, Vance, Moorcock, and Lovecraft, but also by some of the cheesy movies like Dragonslayer (as well as picking up my neighbor's Monster Manual and reading it every time I got a chance). So I would definitely like to add them to Hyperborea.

I can probably do a somewhat decent conversion, but I don't have the experience with the system that some of you probably have, so I wanted to ask the community if anyone had already made an attempt?

Thank you.

**Posted by Blackadder23** 2/27/2020 10:29 am

There are definitely dragons in the Elric stories by Moorcock. I see no real reason why you can't have dragons in a sword and sorcery setting.
AS&SH is pretty similar to AD&D. What is it about the AD&D dragons that makes you feel you couldn't just drop them into the game without conversion?

**Posted by gizmomathboy** 2/27/2020 10:49 am

I don't think many have because by canon the Hyperborea setting doesn't have it.

However, it's your setting so you can do whatever you like or need to.

Sounds like a worthwhile project for you to do. :-)

**Posted by mabon5127** 2/27/2020 11:34 am

You would be as capable as any! I Hesitated to incorporate dragons as, to me, they are more a high fantasy trope. But then, people love their dragons!

**Posted by BlackKnight** 2/27/2020 11:53 am

To win at Dungeons & Dragons, there need to be Dragons.

But that is why I play in Hyperborea, as I'd rather kill Elder things and Spawn of Shoggoth!!!

**Posted by Handy Haversack** 2/27/2020 12:04 pm

I can't see anything that would need to be altered in the stats if you needed dragons. Maybe improve their AC by a step?

But maybe also a good time to really dragon up your dragons, make them unique, true creatures of legend? Instead of the AD&D treasure dispensaries they often became?

**Posted by WARDUKE** 2/27/2020 3:34 pm

Thanks for the responses, all.

I think they mechanically could work like the AD&D ones, and I have found how to handle the movement rate conversions elsewhere on the forums, but does the XP work as is from AD&D?
Thats the part I wasn't sure about converting over.

**Posted by Blackadder23** 2/27/2020 11:57 pm

WARDUKE wrote:
I think they mechanically could work like the AD&D ones, and I have found how to handle the movement rate conversions elsewhere on the forums, but does the XP work as is from AD&D?
Thats the part I wasn't sure about converting over.

I guess? I don't think Jeff has made any claims that the game is finely balanced (in fact, I believe he has expressed disapprobation of the idea at times) so I don't think it would matter much if you awarded XP for some monsters per AD&D.

But that's just my attitude. If I were to run, say, Keep on the Borderlands in AD&D, I wouldn't bother converting anything; I would just use the stats straight from the module. If the orcs have a little different AC than AD&D orcs, or the first level NPC clerics don't have a spell, so what? But I understand not everyone takes the same casual attitude toward the mechanics as I do. It would be easy enough to calculate a new XP total for AD&D dragons, using the table at the beginning of Book IV of the AS&SH rules (page 294).

Good luck with it in any case!

**Posted by Spider of Leng** 2/29/2020 9:46 pm

You could easily use the slightly more powerful dragons from BECMI Rules Cyclopedia. They were in the Companion Set originally. Not quite as souped up as 2e dragons, but a bit more interesting. And don't forget that AS&SH already has wyverns.

Which reminds me, has anyone seen the "Wyvern" movie that's currently free on Youtube? Actually has some actors you'll recognize and captures the 80s tongue in cheek monster movie vibe pretty well. Not a great movie, but Hell it's available for free. And who else has made a movie actually about a freaking wyvern?

Last edited by Spider of Leng (2/29/2020 9:46 pm)

**Posted by grodog** 3/03/2020 11:55 pm

Handy Haversack wrote:
I can't see anything that would need to be altered in the stats if you needed dragons. Maybe improve their AC by a step?

Over the years I worked up several house rules as improvements to baseline AD&D dragons, and will be reevaluating them with more mature eyes in my new Greyhawk campaign. You can check them out at http://www.greyhawkonline.com/grodog/temp/grodog_AD%26D_dragon_rules_03.pdf if you're curious.

Handy Haversack wrote:
But maybe also a good time to really dragon up your dragons, make them unique, true creatures of legend? Instead of the AD&D treasure dispensaries they often became?

To the latter I say "Pish" ;) while to the former, I'll add that I've been reworking the neutral gem dragons from TD#37, and should have a nice post about them on my blog sometime before the Ides of April, or so....

Allan.

**Posted by Handy Haversack** 3/04/2020 9:09 am

grodog wrote:
Handy Haversack wrote:
I can't see anything that would need to be altered in the stats if you needed dragons. Maybe improve their AC by a step?
Over the years I worked up several house rules as improvements to baseline AD&D dragons, and will be reevaluating them with more mature eyes in my new Greyhawk campaign. You can check them out at http://www.greyhawkonline.com/grodog/temp/grodog_AD%26D_dragon_rules_03.pdf if you're curious.

Handy Haversack wrote:
But maybe also a good time to really dragon up your dragons, make them unique, true creatures of legend? Instead of the AD&D treasure dispensaries they often became?
To the latter I say "Pish" ;) while to the former, I'll add that I've been reworking the neutral gem dragons from TD#37, and should have a nice post about them on my blog sometime before the Ides of April, or so....

Allan.

A "pish" from grodog is more valuable than paragraphs from most people!

Will check out your write-ups, Allan!

**Posted by Handy Haversack** 3/04/2020 9:12 am

Handy Haversack wrote:
Will check out your write-ups, Allan!

Though I'm having trouble getting the link to work ...

**Posted by WARDUKE** 2/15/2021 1:27 pm

Apologies for the thread necromancy, but in my post above, I stated: "I have found how to handle the [AD&D] movement rate conversions elsewhere on the forums." Now, for the life of me, I am unable to find where that conversion is here on the forums.

Anyone able to point me to it?

Thank you.

**Posted by Blackadder23** 2/16/2021 11:17 am

One inch in AD&D is equal to a move of 10 (feet indoors, yards outdoors). So an AD&D move of 12" would be a move of 120 in AS&SH.