HYPERBOREA / Rules for adding Elves, Dwarves, Gnomes and Halflings to ASSH

**Posted by joethelawyer** 10/06/2019 9:08 pm

I'm just using ASSH as the base rule set to run a Greyhawk game, not using any of the ASSH races or setting. Hence my need for these additional rules. What do you think?

https://wondrousimaginings.blogspot.com/2019/10/the-mechanics-for-adding-elves-dwarves.html

Last edited by joethelawyer (10/06/2019 9:09 pm)

**Posted by BlackKnight** 10/07/2019 6:57 am

I like the idea of Elves/Dwarves in the setting. However, for myself I would have them as NPCs only. I'm a Norse History buff, so they (and some other races) are in the Sagas, but I prefer the all human character feeling of ASSH's setting.

**Posted by rhialto** 10/07/2019 7:23 am

joethelawyer wrote:
I'm just using ASSH as the base rule set to run a Greyhawk game, not using any of the ASSH races or setting. Hence my need for these additional rules. What do you think?

https://wondrousimaginings.blogspot.com/2019/10/the-mechanics-for-adding-elves-dwarves.html

You probably need to tighten up some of the bonus descriptions: e.g., "Plus one to rolls involving arcane lore checks" probably involves both the Non-Standard Task Resolution (X in 6 chance) as well as Magician/Cleric chances to learn new spells (%). Otherwise they look suitable for Greyhawk.

**Posted by joethelawyer** 10/07/2019 6:41 pm

thanks man!

**Posted by Jimm.Iblis** 10/07/2019 6:51 pm

joethelawyer wrote:
I'm just using ASSH as the base rule set to run a Greyhawk game

Dude, that's like my next big 'wish-upon-a-thing-to-run.' ASSH is such a great system/engine it is fantastic to see it being used in the general RPG fantasy realm.

**Posted by Thrasaric** 10/09/2019 6:25 am

So, what did you add in for humans to balance them out to compete with the magical races?

**Posted by Q-sub** 10/09/2019 6:58 am

Thrasaric wrote:
So, what did you add in for humans to balance them out to compete with the magical races?

It's there in his blog post, first column of the table.

"All Dwarves need 15% more experience per level to level up than humans of the same class," etc.

This being a high-fantasy setting, one also presumes Humans can aspire to levels above 12. But so, perhaps, can demi-humans?

**Posted by Thrasaric** 10/09/2019 2:22 pm

Q-sub wrote:
Thrasaric wrote:
So, what did you add in for humans to balance them out to compete with the magical races?
It's there in his blog post, first column of the table.

"All Dwarves need 15% more experience per level to level up than humans of the same class," etc.

This being a high-fantasy setting, one also presumes Humans can aspire to levels above 12. But so, perhaps, can demi-humans?

I did see that part. The all get magic eyes and spells and stat bonus and skills and they all sound very nice, thought maybe he had something to make the humans a bit more enticing was all, and not mentioned since this was focused on Demi-humans.

**Posted by lige** 10/09/2019 4:55 pm

Any limitations on classes allowed? I'd probably thin down some of those bonus abilities or make them a choose A or B sort of thing (though I can't think of any ASS&H mechanics that really work that way). As is each has as many or more abilities than most classes in the game for a fairly minimal XP penalty. Does this model the basic demi-human races as presented in 3E or 5E because the powers seem a little more expansive than in 1E.

**Posted by joethelawyer** 10/09/2019 8:36 pm

the xp penalty for being a demi human is the only penalty. they can all be any class, just progress slower. gave humans nothing to compensate. They can go as high in levels as humans. i took inspiration from all the editions of dnd and a handful of clones. both humans and demi humans can advance to level 12. no penalty there. maybe i will add a 5% more penalty to each race to make it hurt a bit more. thanks for all the feedback guys.

**Posted by Q-sub** 10/10/2019 7:26 pm

joethelawyer wrote:
the xp penalty for being a demi human is the only penalty. they can all be any class, just progress slower. gave humans nothing to compensate.

It's your game, brother. My dad (who once played a Dwarf long ago!) used to say, "The proof is in the pudding." In other words, by exercising their power to choose race and class in session zero, your players will be telling you how good they perceive these advantages to be.

Not saying that everyone is a min-maxer or takes advantage of the best possible stats, but many are, and the later D&D editions tend to encourage this style of gaming. You're giving demi-humans more bonuses than AD&D does, with a penalty that is equal or lesser. +20% XP seems stiff, but in play it actually means the demi's will level up only a couple of sessions behind their human companions (depending on your pace and how generous you are with XP).

For example, if I were at your table I'd ask to roll using Method III, put my top score in DX and make an Elf. For class I would choose Witch, Shaman, or Legerdemainist, thus getting the most out of the race's extra weapons, stealth, and magical boons. When he's not casting offensive spells he'll be supporting the party with his Longbow. And my minmax-fu is not even that good, compared to some ;-)

~ sub

**Posted by mabon5127** 10/12/2019 11:08 am

I really like the fact that the choice of race in AS&SH is largely a role-playing one. Having played that way for 7 years now I don't think I could ever go back. Could it be done that way with Dwarves, Elves, and whatever else? You want to play a dwarf with the archetypical personality and traditions, go ahead, there will be no mechanical advantages but poof you are a dwarf. As a GM I may give the dwarf some more information in underground situations or have them perform a little better in complete darkness but nothing in stone as it were. Just a thought.

**Posted by Iron Ranger** 10/12/2019 12:21 pm

mabon5127 wrote:
I really like the fact that the choice of race in AS&SH is largely a role-playing one. Having played that way for 7 years now I don't think I could ever go back. Could it be done that way with Dwarves, Elves, and whatever else? You want to play a dwarf with the archetypical personality and traditions, go ahead, there will be no mechanical advantages but poof you are a dwarf. As a GM I may give the dwarf some more information in underground situations or have them perform a little better in complete darkness but nothing in stone as it were. Just a thought.

Yes, if it "must" be done, this is the way.

**Posted by Spider of Leng** 10/16/2019 8:04 am

I still like the notion of more limited class options and level limits for demi-humans as a way of balancing. In my campaign, only demi-humans can multi-class, but this is offset a bit by the class and level limits. We follow the Hackmaster 4th edition rules there, which was basically an adaptation of Unearthed Arcana without the crazy ability score requirements. And if not multi-classed, they can exceed the listed max by 2 levels, so a gnome illusionist can be 15th level, a half-elven fighter 14th, etc. But I'll add that the demi-humans are currently confined to the main campaign setting, where we use Advanced Labyrinth Lord as the base system. So character level maxes are 20.

Since some of the AS&SH classes are essentially multi-classes already, this could complicate things down the road if we decide to put the demi-humans in Hyperborea. As currently stands, a cosmic event ripped Hyperborea from the space-time continuum and grafted it onto the north pole area of our planet. There are various highly dangerous ways of getting there, but few even know about its existence.