HYPERBOREA / Goodberry versus Create Food & Water

**Posted by Brock Savage** 5/07/2018 2:19 am

Goodberry renders most food management or survival challenges trivial (I don't find a 1st level "spell tax" very interesting or challenging) and renders a 3rd level spell, Create Food & Water, nearly obsolete. As far as I can recall, this has been true in every edition of D&D I have played so I concede there may be a good reason behind it. Thoughts?

**Posted by Blackadder23** 5/07/2018 8:20 am

Apart from the fact that not every party has a druid (or other class capable of using this spell), fresh berries aren't found everywhere (especially not in very survival-challenging places like the desert and Arctic regions). Basically, to use goodberry, you have to be in a region that has some natural food available anyway.

**Posted by Ghul** 5/07/2018 2:35 pm

Yes, and "fresh" is the operative word here. Typically speaking, I give freshness a five-day shelf life on most berries. After that, they are spoiling and no longer fresh.

**Posted by Brock Savage** 5/07/2018 3:00 pm

Thank you for weighing in on this, gentlemen. Is it safe to assume a caster can't game the system with fresh inedible berries such as juniper or mistletoe?

**Posted by Blackadder23** 5/07/2018 3:48 pm

Ghul wrote:
Yes, and "fresh" is the operative word here. Typically speaking, I give freshness a five-day shelf life on most berries. After that, they are spoiling and no longer fresh.

You're more charitable than me. I take "fresh" to mean "you picked them from the bush immediately before casting the spell". Either way, it puts the kibosh on a first level spell being able to circumvent all survival challenges.

Brock Savage wrote:
Thank you for weighing in on this, gentlemen. Is it safe to assume a caster can't game the system with fresh inedible berries such as juniper or mistletoe?

I probably would not allow goodberry to be cast on inedible berries. Even if you did, the "fresh" requirement (which also exists in the AD&D version) keeps the spell from being used in the inhospitable terrain that provides the most severe challenges for survival. I mean, never mind goodberry; if the PCs are in the kind of terrain where berries are likely to grow, I would probably allow a druid to just locate edible plants for them. In my experience, goodberry is used (if at all) as a minor healing spell.

**Posted by mabon5127** 5/07/2018 4:12 pm

Blackadder23I mean, never mind [i wrote:
goodberry[/i]; if the PCs are in the kind of terrain where berries are likely to grow, I would probably allow a druid to just locate edible plants for them. In my experience, goodberry is used (if at all) as a minor healing spell.

Bingo!

**Posted by Blackadder23** 5/07/2018 4:48 pm

One advantage goodberry does have over cure light wounds is that the healing can be split among more than one recipient. The drawback is (again) fresh berries must be on hand.

**Posted by Iron Ranger** 5/09/2018 7:06 pm

Blackadder23 wrote:
One advantage goodberry does have over cure light wounds is that the healing can be split among more than one recipient. The drawback is (again) fresh berries must be on hand.

And I can't tell you how many times I've had to remind my players, "Fresh Goodberries don't grow on trees, ya know?"

**Posted by Jimm.Iblis** 5/09/2018 8:44 pm

And don't forget they are non-existant in extended delves underground. Dungeoneering 101. Don't eat the little brown berries.

Last edited by Jimm.Iblis (5/09/2018 8:45 pm)

**Posted by Jimm.Iblis** 5/09/2018 8:52 pm

Ghul wrote:
Yes, and "fresh" is the operative word here. Typically speaking, I give freshness a five-day shelf life on most berries. After that, they are spoiling and no longer fresh.

I've been a produce merchant. Berries are very quick to spoil, even with modern refrigeration, fungicides, and whatnot. They quickly absorb fungus from nearby fruits, and it spreads on them like wildfire. I've seen an entire cooler display of blackberries go from "fine" to "covered in white gunk" in the span of an 8 hour shift. I'd give a few berries kept in some sweaty hippy's mojo sack an hour or two at most.

In a fantasy world with giant insects, I wouldn't want to be the one carrying extemely fragrant little balls of candy, either.

Last edited by Jimm.Iblis (5/09/2018 8:57 pm)

**Posted by Blackadder23** 5/10/2018 11:26 am

Jimm.Iblis wrote:
Ghul wrote:
Yes, and "fresh" is the operative word here. Typically speaking, I give freshness a five-day shelf life on most berries. After that, they are spoiling and no longer fresh.
I've been a produce merchant. Berries are very quick to spoil, even with modern refrigeration, fungicides, and whatnot. They quickly absorb fungus from nearby fruits, and it spreads on them like wildfire. I've seen an entire cooler display of blackberries go from "fine" to "covered in white gunk" in the span of an 8 hour shift. I'd give a few berries kept in some sweaty hippy's mojo sack an hour or two at most.

In a fantasy world with giant insects, I wouldn't want to be the one carrying extemely fragrant little balls of candy, either.

And if some idiot takes fresh berries into a dungeon, you can have yellow mold grow in his backpack.

**Posted by mabon5127** 5/10/2018 12:18 pm

Blackadder23 wrote:
Jimm.Iblis wrote:
Ghul wrote:
Yes, and "fresh" is the operative word here. Typically speaking, I give freshness a five-day shelf life on most berries. After that, they are spoiling and no longer fresh.
I've been a produce merchant. Berries are very quick to spoil, even with modern refrigeration, fungicides, and whatnot. They quickly absorb fungus from nearby fruits, and it spreads on them like wildfire. I've seen an entire cooler display of blackberries go from "fine" to "covered in white gunk" in the span of an 8 hour shift. I'd give a few berries kept in some sweaty hippy's mojo sack an hour or two at most.

In a fantasy world with giant insects, I wouldn't want to be the one carrying extemely fragrant little balls of candy, either.

And if some idiot takes fresh berries into a dungeon, you can have yellow mold grow in his backpack.

Iron Rations!