Posted by mabon5127  2/21/2018 3:36 pm | #41 |
Brock Savage wrote:
I read this thread and cringed as I remembered 1st level wizards being single-charge magic items. During my old school experiences, after a wizard cast his spell it was back to the rear of the party for rest of the session.
I'm not trying to piss in anyone's Cheerios but to be honest, I have mostly negative "old school" experiences. Maybe the D&D scene was bumpin' in the 1980's Midwestern "D&D Belt" but for a kid in a Southern California barrio the pickings were slim. The players I did find were mostly adult and always weird. Gameplay was jarringly different from I imagined it would be, wavering between boring and frustrating. Adversarial DMs seemed to be the norm. Frankly, it's a miracle that I continued to be interested in gaming long enough to start DMing on my own by using my previous experience as examples of what NOT to do. I ran Cyberpunk2020 and didn't look back until the OSR hit its golden age with the introduction of Astonishing Swordmen & Sorcerers of Hyperborea.
This all being said, the OSR movement is a massive font of creativity. It is great to see that people had fun with the old ways; I want to capture that magic and share with my friends. To that end, I voraciously devour the nuggets of wisdom doled out by the pro-tier old schoolers on this board and a few blogs.
Glad you stuck it out! Those "formative" years probably have allowed you to become a great GM!
“How can I wear the harness of toil
And sweat at the daily round,
While in my soul forever
The drums of Pictdom sound?”
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Posted by Brock Savage 2/21/2018 4:17 pm | #42 |
Thank you Mabon, you are too kind. I wouldn't say it made me a great DM but it did teach me that player enjoyment is the goal of tabletop RPGs. Especially now when so many things compete for our precious, precious free time.
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Posted by rhialto 2/21/2018 7:45 pm | #43 |
I have an odd position on this "old-new" divide: for me the attraction of the "old" is simpler, familiar rules which are easy to house-rule and exercise my creativity and have fun with my friends (of 40+ years now), and now our various offspring. But all my experiences of the "new" (as in, the dozens upon dozens of systems I've played or run) affect how I play the "old". So, while I run AS&SH, I run it more like later editions: 1st-level characters are heroic from the get-go (I vaguely recall a 1st-level character being 1-out-of-100 or so in 1e). They are not yet Conans, John Carters, Fafhrds, Jirels, etc., but they are 1/12th of the way there.
"It is all very well to point out that the man lacks facility; as he asserts, sheer force can overpower sophistication."
Jack Vance, Rhialto the Marvellous
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Posted by Brock Savage 2/21/2018 8:03 pm | #44 |
They are not yet Conans, John Carters, Fafhrds, Jirels, etc., but they are 1/12th of the way
Agreed. The level 12 cap is perfect.
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Posted by Handy Haversack 2/22/2018 9:31 am | #45 |
I read this thread and cringed as I remembered 1st level wizards being single-charge magic items. During my old school experiences, after a wizard cast his spell it was back to the rear of the party for rest of the session.
I'm not trying to piss in anyone's Cheerios but to be honest, I have mostly negative "old school" experiences. Maybe the D&D scene was bumpin' in the 1980's Midwestern "D&D Belt" but for a kid in a Southern California barrio the pickings were slim. The players I did find were mostly adult and always weird. Gameplay was jarringly different from I imagined it would be, wavering between boring and frustrating. Adversarial DMs seemed to be the norm. Frankly, it's a miracle that I continued to be interested in gaming long enough to start DMing on my own by using my previous experience as examples of what NOT to do. I ran Cyberpunk2020 and didn't look back until the OSR hit its golden age with the introduction of Astonishing Swordmen & Sorcerers of Hyperborea.
This all being said, the OSR movement is a massive font of creativity. It is great to see that people had fun with the old ways; I want to capture that magic and share with my friends. To that end, I voraciously devour the nuggets of wisdom doled out by the pro-tier old schoolers on this board and a few blogs.
Honestly, I bet your experience is more typical than not. Though I think many people thought that what you describe *was* how they were supposed to play and adopted that model and still do it today. You see this at cons and in people's reports of public play. I consider myself AMAZINGLY lucky to have found the group of friends that I game with -- and to have been around enough gamers my age as a kid that no fucktard with the social skills of a Gar, Giant, was able to crush the gaming out of me. I think the corporate gaming years, call it mid-eighties through . . . well . . . [pick your own cut-off date] were a terrible, terrible time for both creativity and basic socialization in gaming circles, and we're lucky to have the DIY communities and general sense of fellow feeling that we do now.
But there are still a lot of people, even playing cool games, who need some firm grounding in how to treat other people at the table.
I guess *my* rant is: Most people suck. We should be better. That's how the game grows. Roll for initiative.
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Posted by francisca 2/22/2018 12:27 pm | #46 |
Well, I'll repeat here what I've said elsewhere. I don't game with people that I wouldn't do something else with. Hanging with friends is the point. The gaming part is a means to the end. I'm not going to sit in a regular game with people who I don't like, or whose playstyle is 180 degrees out of phase with mine, who constantly point it out, whine and b**** about it, and generally throw micro-tantrums over it.
I've been fortunate enough to always be able to find people of a like mind, who aren't socially-challenged weirdos, to hang out and game with. Even those who favor a different playstyle, will still come and play in games with me and my fellow grognards, because the friendship is the point. In my oldschool games, they won't b**** and moan constantly about "1 charge magic items", etc..., and they have a great time.
I guess my parting thought is this: No matter what game and playstyle a campaign (or even a one-shot) is going to be, expectations need to be laid down at the start. If you have a problem with 1 spell at first level for M-Us, and your playing in my old-school Greyhawk game, you need to either check that at the door, play a different kind of character, or decide to sit that one out. Communication is the key. Of course, with D&D and it's progeny being a social game, one would think that would not be an issue. Alas, the old sow of D&D being a "Social game played by socially-challenged people" still holds in many locales.
Likewise, I played in 5 year long D&D3.5 game set in Dragonlance (definitely not my first choice of edition and setting, by a long shot), and went with the flow, because the guys in the group were a blast, and are still good friends, even they they've dispersed around the country.
I get how a bad experience can turn you off of something. I've had bad experiences with other oldschool gamers, especially those for whom it isn't a pastime, but a lifestyle. I've also had really bad experiences with organized play - 3e era Living Greyhawk was a motely collection of powergamers, catpissmen, and creeps in my neck of the woods. I'm hoping Adventurer's League is better, but looking around the cons I attend....well, let's just say some of the same sort of elements look to have "upgraded". I'm sure (meaning, I sure the hell hope) they are a minority, but 1:10 rotten apples in the bunch is too high of a ratio for me.
Last edited by francisca (2/22/2018 12:30 pm)
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Posted by Iron Ranger 4/22/2018 5:26 pm | #47 |
I read this thread and cringed as I remembered 1st level wizards being single-charge magic items. During my old school experiences, after a wizard cast his spell it was back to the rear of the party for rest of the session.
Fighters with 5 hit points had better head back there too! First level should be hard.
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Posted by Jimm.Iblis 4/24/2018 3:22 pm | #48 |
After playing about a 1/2 dozen sessions as a 1st level witch-man in under_score's campaign, my attitude is shifting about letting mages multi-cast their spells. I'm having fun, roleplaying my character's mysterious airs, and having his two hirelings protect him until he unleashes his sleep spell. For sword-and-sorcery, at least, old-school spellcasting limits are perfect.
Last edited by Jimm.Iblis (4/24/2018 3:22 pm)
"Role-playing isn't storytelling. If the dungeon master is directing it, it's not a game." ~ Gary Gygax
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Posted by Ghul 4/25/2018 3:22 pm | #49 |
That's the spirit, Jimm!
HYPERBOREA- A Role-Playing Game of Swords, Sorcery, and Weird Science-Fantasy
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Posted by J.E.Snyder 5/12/2018 8:16 am | #50 |
Great idea...
This is one thing about old school games that has always stuck in my craw. Worse if your one spell is interrupted. Basically makes the dedicated spell-user a useless tagalong if not a liability at the early levels. My house rule is to roll 1d6 after casting any spell. If the result is higher than the spell level, you can cast it again. Done and done.
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Posted by Iron Ranger 5/12/2018 11:05 am | #51 |
After playing about a 1/2 dozen sessions as a 1st level witch-man in under_score's campaign, my attitude is shifting about letting mages multi-cast their spells. I'm having fun, roleplaying my character's mysterious airs, and having his two hirelings protect him until he unleashes his sleep spell. For sword-and-sorcery, at least, old-school spellcasting limits are perfect.
But seems like Jimm came to his senses, J.E.
Last edited by Iron Ranger (5/12/2018 11:07 am)
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