HYPERBOREA » Spartans

Chainsaw · 6/27/2014 9:49 pm

If someone wanted to play a Spartan warrior, like maybe one who wound up in Hyperborea through some sort of strange portal or whatever, would you design a unique race/class combination, perhaps a subclass of Fighter? Or just have him play a Greek Fighter and flesh out the Spartan angle with weapon proficiencies, armor choice and roleplaying? I'm thinking the latter probably suffices, but if there's a good argument for the former, I could be tempted.

Maybe it would depend on whether there were special and unique advantages and disadvantages that a Spartan warrior needed above and beyond those of the Fighter. For the sake of example, stuff like:

Advantages: hardiness (larger hit dice than fighter), athletics (running, jumping, grappling, boxing bonuses; maybe AC bonuses when unarmored or lightly armored), absolutely unfailing morale and pain tolerance in battle (some berzerker like benefits), perhaps special bonuses with spear/shield combination, etc?

Disadvantages: retreat not an option when engaged in combat (some berzerker like penalties), very limited weapon choices (spear, javelin, short sword, dagger), very limited armor choices (maybe only light armor), no mounted combat, penalties to the accumulation of wealth or lavish living (you know, Spartan lifestyle and all), etc?

Any thoughts?

6/28/2014 1:02 am

I wouldn't call a hoplite, "lightly armored." They were the ultimate heavy infantry in their time.

As for giving the Spartan Hoplite all of the advantages or disadvantages in your list, I'd probably make it a custom class vs. incorporating that into racial characteristics. Also I'd definitely incorporate some kind of advantage when fighting in a shield wall or a phalanx; and play up thier fanaticism, which were the Spartan's real claim to fame.

Yora · 6/28/2014 1:06 am

They really are just fighters with good PR. Maybe because of their society the citizen soldiers are all 1st level fighters instead of level 0, but that's the most I think they should get.

nDervish · 6/28/2014 7:39 am

Yora wrote:
They really are just fighters with good PR. Maybe because of their society the citizen soldiers are all 1st level fighters instead of level 0, but that's the most I think they should get.

Agreed.

"AS&SH Player's Manual, p. 18" wrote:
The fighter is the archetypal warrior. He may be a trained infantryman, horseman, crossbowman, longbowman, halberdier, or pikeman. Perhaps he is a former arena gladiator, or a loyal knight who serves a feudal lord. Some fighters will crusade as instruments of death, whilst others will freelance: mercenaries who live by dint of steel. The most dastardly of fighters operate as brigands, pirates, or reavers, and the most esteemed fighters are men of courage and valour, natural leaders and exemplars. Regardless of his roots, the fighter is renowned for his strength, versatility, and fearlessness in battle.

If the Fighter class is broad enough to encompass crossbowmen, pikemen, gladiators, knights, pirates, and everything else listed there, then I don't see why Spartans would fall outside of its range.

Ghul · 6/28/2014 2:22 pm

Honestly, Chainsaw, I would probably go with a fighter using some of the Spartan flavor for culture / window-dressing. I don't think a new class is required for this one, personally, but if you come up with something more concrete, please let us know!

Chainsaw · 6/28/2014 2:50 pm

Ghul wrote:
Honestly, Chainsaw, I would probably go with a fighter using some of the Spartan flavor for culture / window-dressing. I don't think a new class is required for this one, personally, but if you come up with something more concrete, please let us know!

Yeah, as I said in my original post, that's the way I was originally leaning, though as you well know, there are plenty of subclasses already (20+), so it seemed well within the parameters of the game and also like something that might be fun to talk about in case anyone had any good ideas. Plus, I had just finished watching 300.

The_Great_Lestrade · 6/28/2014 5:00 pm

I think its a mint idea. I'd be tempted to come up with a class even if it was really a hybrid of those that already exist. Decide whether its a 300 spartan or a historical one. If its a historical one, then the no retreat and weapon proficiencies for spear etc are probably all you need. I'd probably make him or her expeirenced in galley based combat and able to swim well and I'd probably make them a Hellenic race.

heres the wiki description of their attitude. You could just get your player to read the Spartan Wiki and roleplay it.

The Spartan hoplite followed a strict laconic code of honor. No soldier was considered superior to another.[53][/url] Suicidal recklesness, berserkery, and rage were prohibited in a Spartan army, as these behaviors endangered the phalanx. Recklessness could lead to dishonor, as in the case of Aristodemus.[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spartan_army#cite_note-dgrbm-55][55][/url] Spartans regarded those who fight, while still wishing to live, as more valorous than those who don't care if they die.[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spartan_army#cite_note-dgrbm-55][55][/url] They believed that a warrior must not fight with raging anger, but with calmed determination.[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spartan_army#cite_note-56][56][/url] By the laconic way of life, Spartans must walk without any noise, and speak only with few words.[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spartan_army#cite_note-Soriano85-53][53] Other ways for Spartans to be dishonored were dropping the shield (rhipsaspia), failing to complete the training, and deserting in battle. Dishonored Spartans were labeled outcasts, and were forced to wear different clothing forpublic humiliation.

Rastus_Burne · 1/27/2015 1:53 am

Whether or not you create a separate subclass isn't something I wish to comment on (although if you did I think it could be cool). What I do wish to comment on, is that the Spartan concept fits nicely within the Hyperborean context I think. Even after reading only two of Howard's short stories, I could imagine a Spartan-like nation existing within the world, being a distant clan. Of course they'd be in a state of ongoing decay like all the other nations in the world ;)

Handy Haversack · 5/26/2016 1:45 pm

I recently read Plutarch on Sparta and am now reading Xenophon's Anabasis. I don't think that a new class is needed for Spartans (I guess you'd just have a Spartan fighter take mastery in pike or great spear). I *do* think that the ancient Greeks were waaaaaay weirder than we tend to remember (thanks a lot, movies), Spartan or no. It would be totally fun to Hyperboreanize Spartans in the traditional way: posit either an area where they settled *at some point* (0-3,000 years ago), with whatever Hyperborean changes you then want to think up, or have a troop of them (1-10,000) stumble through into Hyperborea *right now* (or, of course, hundreds of years ago but they have been frozen in amber/locked in stasis/made into intelligent undead guardians/transformed into starlings until the PCs get there).

Now that's a party.

Ghul · 5/26/2016 9:04 pm

Handy Haversack wrote:
I recently read Plutarch on Sparta and am now reading Xenophon's Anabasis. I don't think that a new class is needed for Spartans (I guess you'd just have a Spartan fighter take mastery in pike or great spear). I *do* think that the ancient Greeks were waaaaaay weirder than we tend to remember (thanks a lot, movies), Spartan or no. It would be totally fun to Hyperboreanize Spartans in the traditional way: posit either an area where they settled *at some point* (0-3,000 years ago), with whatever Hyperborean changes you then want to think up, or have a troop of them (1-10,000) stumble through into Hyperborea *right now* (or, of course, hundreds of years ago but they have been frozen in amber/locked in stasis/made into intelligent undead guardians/transformed into starlings until the PCs get there).

Now that's a party.

Great post. Spartans. Roman legionnaires. There are so many possibilities when one considers the great crossing of the mystic veil. Now, having up to 10,000 could possibly be a huge campaign changer, what with populations so low in the aftermath of the Green Death. I think you are onto something very interesting, Handy!

Handy Haversack · 5/26/2016 10:16 pm

Ghul wrote:
Now, having up to 10,000 could possibly be a huge campaign changer, what with populations so low in the aftermath of the Green Death.

Well, I was just suggesting a possibility. If they all have just stumbled through at the same time, imagine how many are going to get eaten by something!

But I think 29 out of 30 Hel(l)en(e)s would agree that 300 is the sweet spot.

mabon5127 · 5/27/2016 6:23 am

Handy Haversack wrote:
Ghul wrote:
Now, having up to 10,000 could possibly be a huge campaign changer, what with populations so low in the aftermath of the Green Death.
Well, I was just suggesting a possibility. If they all have just stumbled through at the same time, imagine how many are going to get eaten by something!

But I think 29 out of 30 Hel(l)en(e)s would agree that 300 is the sweet spot.

300 souls on their way to their ancestors transported to Hyperborea to find themselves in the bodies of stalwart Kimerians may be interesting....

gizmomathboy · 5/27/2016 9:31 am

I wonder if the Spartans would consider the long winter a form of shade.

Ghul · 6/22/2016 8:40 pm

Shade like Herodotus wrote of?

"(...) the Spartan Dienekes is said to have proved himself the best man of all, the same who, as they report, uttered this saying before they engaged battle with the Medes:--being informed by one of the men of Trachis that when the Barbarians discharged their arrows they obscured the light of the sun by the multitude of the arrows, so great was the number of their host, he was not dismayed by this, but making small account of the number of the Medes, he said that their guest from Trachis brought them very good news, for if the Medes obscured the light of the sun, the battle against them would be in the shade and not in the sun." — Histories, 7.226

Handy Haversack · 6/23/2016 7:41 am

When life gives you arrows, make lemonade!

Ghul · 6/23/2016 8:53 am

What a perfect 1,300th post, Handy! You're on a role.

gizmomathboy · 6/23/2016 12:49 pm

Ghul wrote:
Shade like Herodotus wrote of?

Exactly.

Handy Haversack · 6/24/2016 8:14 am

Ghul wrote:
What a perfect 1,300th post, Handy! You're on a role.

If they ever catch me, it will be for passing bad reaction checks.

Te occidere possunt sed te edere non possunt nefas est.