HYPERBOREA » Scrolls

Handy Haversack · 3/31/2016 2:52 pm

Blackadder23 wrote:
Handy Haversack wrote:
Call me old-fashioned, but I have trouble seeing the fungibility of shaman scrolls in the Handy cosmos. Deranged scribblings on the skin of a white elk meant to quickly activate sleep just don't strike me as likely to be that useful to Lord Magicbottom of Khromarium. I don't even like the idea of shamans being able to use scrolls made by other shamans--unless they share a totem. Even then I'm leery.

I like my shamans crazy. Like your uncle who thinks he's a chicken. He's nutso, but you can't get rid of him. You need the eggs.
I guess I could see the argument either way. One theme in a lot of Lovecraft's stories is "civilized" men learning dangerous truths from the scribblings of ancient heathens. So I could see "civilized" men in Hyperborea piecing together spells from the scribblings of contemporary heathens.

Hmm . . . yes with a but. Almost everyone in Hyperborea is already "heathen"! I like shaman being a few steps beyond. I think that their goal is total gestalt with the totem animal, whether that's actual physical transformation something more mental. Shaman should be recording their spells in patterns of fat on preserved hide and in tooth marks on oyster shells. In my mind.

Maybe it's partly that I think the shaman illustration in the book is really hot.

mabon5127 wrote:
A new lead for Knives in the Dark!

This is a job for Ghost Girlfriend!

Blackadder23 · 3/31/2016 3:34 pm

I think we can all come together in agreement that the shaman illustration is hot.

mabon5127 · 3/31/2016 4:50 pm

Blackadder23 wrote:
I think we can all come together in agreement that the shaman illustration is hot.

Indeed. She looks down on me as I travel the internet!

mabon5127 · 3/31/2016 5:00 pm

Handy Haversack wrote:
Blackadder23 wrote:
Handy Haversack wrote:
Call me old-fashioned, but I have trouble seeing the fungibility of shaman scrolls in the Handy cosmos. Deranged scribblings on the skin of a white elk meant to quickly activate sleep just don't strike me as likely to be that useful to Lord Magicbottom of Khromarium. I don't even like the idea of shamans being able to use scrolls made by other shamans--unless they share a totem. Even then I'm leery.

I like my shamans crazy. Like your uncle who thinks he's a chicken. He's nutso, but you can't get rid of him. You need the eggs.
I guess I could see the argument either way. One theme in a lot of Lovecraft's stories is "civilized" men learning dangerous truths from the scribblings of ancient heathens. So I could see "civilized" men in Hyperborea piecing together spells from the scribblings of contemporary heathens.
Hmm . . . yes with a but. Almost everyone in Hyperborea is already "heathen"! I like shaman being a few steps beyond. I think that their goal is total gestalt with the totem animal, whether that's actual physical transformation something more mental. Shaman should be recording their spells in patterns of fat on preserved hide and in tooth marks on oyster shells. In my mind.

Maybe it's partly that I think the shaman illustration in the book is really hot.

mabon5127 wrote:
A new lead for Knives in the Dark!
This is a job for Ghost Girlfriend!

Lord Magicbottom would definitely feel that his advanced and darkly efficient style of sorcery is the true and preferred way of doing things. Whereas the naked shaman covered in bear fat to keep warm, with the finger bones of his sacrifices woven into his beard would be considered the primitive "heathen".

DMPrata · 4/01/2016 2:18 pm

mabon5127 wrote:
You probably noted this already but the Cryomancer will need to be added to the scroll type table in the treasure section.

I very conveniently saved space for the cryomancer when I numbered the scroll table four years ago. Pretty prescient of me, no?

mabon5127 wrote:
Should shaman created scrolls be added as a scroll type even though they may only be useful to other shaman?

Morgan

Jeff will have the final word, of course, but I would lean towards no. Leave such scrolls to be placed by individual referees as warranted.

Ghul · 4/01/2016 4:45 pm

DMPrata wrote:
mabon5127 wrote:
You probably noted this already but the Cryomancer will need to be added to the scroll type table in the treasure section.
I very conveniently saved space for the cryomancer when I numbered the scroll table four years ago. Pretty prescient of me, no?

mabon5127 wrote:
Should shaman created scrolls be added as a scroll type even though they may only be useful to other shaman?

Morgan
Jeff will have the final word, of course, but I would lean towards no. Leave such scrolls to be placed by individual referees as warranted.

I agree with everything David has said above, including his above answer. Everything he's said is spot-on, but we can certainly improve vague language to make all of that more clear.

Ghul · 4/01/2016 4:51 pm

Handy Haversack wrote:
Hmm . . . yes with a but. Almost everyone in Hyperborea is already "heathen"! I like shaman being a few steps beyond. I think that their goal is total gestalt with the totem animal, whether that's actual physical transformation something more mental. Shaman should be recording their spells in patterns of fat on preserved hide and in tooth marks on oyster shells. In my mind.

This is a great "colour" description that illustrates precisely why I have not included the shaman's scrolls already. It's actually more creative than I'd ever envisaged, so thank you, Handy.

mabon5127 · 4/01/2016 5:30 pm

Ghul wrote:
Handy Haversack wrote:
Hmm . . . yes with a but. Almost everyone in Hyperborea is already "heathen"! I like shaman being a few steps beyond. I think that their goal is total gestalt with the totem animal, whether that's actual physical transformation something more mental. Shaman should be recording their spells in patterns of fat on preserved hide and in tooth marks on oyster shells. In my mind.
This is a great "colour" description that illustrates precisely why I have not included the shaman's scrolls already. It's actually more creative than I'd ever envisaged, so thank you, Handy.

But....but...shaman do make scrolls (or oyster shells with patterned tooth marks) so shouldn't adventurers be able to find them? Not trying to represent the shaman union here but we would be the only group that makes "scrolls" not on the random list. Don't do it for me do it for the lovely shaman of Yikkorth!

Morgan

Ghul · 4/01/2016 6:36 pm

Point taken! If they make them, they exist, even if they are practically useless to others. I'll give it some thought.

Blackadder23 · 4/02/2016 10:41 am

One possibility would be to add a note at the bottom of the table saying something to the effect of, "5% of magician, cleric, necromancer, and druid scrolls will be penned by shamans." Just a suggestion.

Ghul wrote:
Point taken! If they make them, they exist, even if they are practically useless to others. I'll give it some thought.

I gather from this statement that the intent is that shaman scrolls can't be used by other classes, even ones using the same school of magic? I think this could stand to be clarified in the new printing, because I'm not sure this is clear from the current RAW.

Ghul · 4/02/2016 12:21 pm

Blackadder23 wrote:
One possibility would be to add a note at the bottom of the table saying something to the effect of, "5% of magician, cleric, necromancer, and druid scrolls will be penned by shamans." Just a suggestion.

Ghul wrote:
Point taken! If they make them, they exist, even if they are practically useless to others. I'll give it some thought.
I gather from this statement that the intent is that shaman scrolls can't be used by other classes, even ones using the same school of magic? I think this could stand to be clarified in the new printing, because I'm not sure this is clear from the current RAW.

I took another look at the shaman's scroll creation ability, as well as the shaman's sorcery ability, and also the scroll creation and use rules in general. It appears this is not clear in the current RAW, but maybe I thought it was, because it's how I've handled it, and apparently Handy, too (which is frightening to realize we are thinking alike!). I'm probably not as strict as Handy, though -- I can see allowing shamans to use other shaman's scrolls, but there may well be a cost! Is the original creator of the scroll invoking his/her powers through ancestral spirits? What happens when the Esquimaux shamaness invokes the ancestral spirited scroll of a Pict? These are things I think about! But mabon's point remains true -- these items exist, so perhaps they should be findable.

Last edited by Ghul (4/02/2016 12:43 pm)

Handy Haversack · 4/04/2016 7:19 am

Ghul wrote:
I took another look at the shaman's scroll creation ability, as well as the shaman's sorcery ability, and also the scroll creation and use rules in general. It appears this is not clear in the current RAW, but maybe I thought it was, because it's how I've handled it, and apparently Handy, too (which is frightening to realize we are thinking alike!).

I'm scared, too.

Ghul wrote:
I'm probably not as strict as Handy, though -- I can see allowing shamans to use other shaman's scrolls, but there may well be a cost! Is the original creator of the scroll invoking his/her powers through ancestral spirits? What happens when the Esquimaux shamaness invokes the ancestral spirited scroll of a Pict? These are things I think about! But mabon's point remains true -- these items exist, so perhaps they should be findable.

I would certainly think some sacrifice would have to be made to the totem animal to accommodate the issue. Maybe even and specifically killing an exemplar of the totem type of the scroll writer.