HYPERBOREA » D&D N̶e̶x̶t̶ Not

Maezar · 5/22/2014 9:19 am

So I finally got a look inside D&D Next.

Here's a hearty public thank you to Ghul for saving us all from the monstrosity that "the game with the name" has become. It feels corp(se)orate, with little spark and a high price tag.

I hope I might plan and create materials (posters, adventure, pre-gens, etc) so that we as "Hyperboreans" might collectively hold a global event through which we can invite others to share in what we've discovered. Meetup.com holds promise...

Handy Haversack · 5/22/2014 11:04 am

I've been talking up Hyperborea on Dragonsfoot whenever the opportunity presents itself, and I think I've had at least one conversion to a sale.

Not, I think, that I ever would have bothered with the new D&D. But I sure am glad for all Jeff's work on AS&SH! You had the ampersand before it was cool (again)!

Maezar, one idea might be to get some stuff published in some more of the zines. Scalydemon's AFS has had AS&SH material, and Rats in the Walls was also in Fight On! What else might be a good fit? & Magazine? Wizards Mutants Laser Pistols? Footprints?

Blackadder23 · 5/22/2014 11:09 am

Blearrgh. Thanks for taking a look so the rest of us don't have to.

I bought the 3rd edition PH, DMG, and MM as soon as they were released, read them, laughed at the idea that I would run a game with such rules, and gave them away that same week. I bought nothing else for 3rd and nothing for 4th. I expect that trend to continue with 5th (or whatever they're calling it this week).

Druvas · 5/22/2014 11:30 am

I haven't read up on D&D Next yet, not sure if I'll bother. When I returned to D&D after a 15 year hiatus, I went with 3.5 and have pretty much every product of that line (shhh don't tell anyone, I don't want to lose any more street cred). All those books anchor my bookshelf to the floor so the better stuff up high doesn't topple it over. ;-)

After rediscovering the joy of 1st ed, I never looked back until, first C&C and a few retro clones, then AS&SoH captured my heart, no..., my soul. I jsut don't see any need to blow $150 on Next. Although, if it flops and WotC gets in trouble, they might start lashing out at the clones, calling in licensing and whatnot. That could be motivation enough to help keep them afloat...

Handy Haversack · 5/22/2014 12:11 pm

Druvas wrote:
After rediscovering the joy of 1st ed, I never looked back until, first C&C and a few retro clones, then AS&SoH captured my heart, no..., my soul. I jsut don't see any need to blow $150 on Next. Although, if it flops and WotC gets in trouble, they might start lashing out at the clones, calling in licensing and whatnot. That could be motivation enough to help keep them afloat...

Man, this sucks. I was going to capture Druvas's soul! Yora's players could have come after me to get it back. I'm a supervillain! And for what?

Druvas · 5/22/2014 12:15 pm

Handy Haversack wrote:
Druvas wrote:
After rediscovering the joy of 1st ed, I never looked back until, first C&C and a few retro clones, then AS&SoH captured my heart, no..., my soul. I jsut don't see any need to blow $150 on Next. Although, if it flops and WotC gets in trouble, they might start lashing out at the clones, calling in licensing and whatnot. That could be motivation enough to help keep them afloat...
Man, this sucks. I was going to capture Druvas's soul! Yora's players could have come after me to get it back. I'm a supervillain! And for what?

Well, you could be the lucky fella to capture my heart, still yet. ;-P

Handy Haversack · 5/22/2014 12:41 pm

Druvas wrote:
Handy Haversack wrote:
Druvas wrote:
After rediscovering the joy of 1st ed, I never looked back until, first C&C and a few retro clones, then AS&SoH captured my heart, no..., my soul. I jsut don't see any need to blow $150 on Next. Although, if it flops and WotC gets in trouble, they might start lashing out at the clones, calling in licensing and whatnot. That could be motivation enough to help keep them afloat...
Man, this sucks. I was going to capture Druvas's soul! Yora's players could have come after me to get it back. I'm a supervillain! And for what?
Well, you could be the lucky fella to capture my heart, still yet. ;-P

GP value is low ... but the sentimental value is through the roof!

Druvas · 5/22/2014 12:46 pm

Handy Haversack wrote:
Druvas wrote:
Handy Haversack wrote:

Man, this sucks. I was going to capture Druvas's soul! Yora's players could have come after me to get it back. I'm a supervillain! And for what?
Well, you could be the lucky fella to capture my heart, still yet. ;-P
GP value is low ... but the sentimental value is through the roof!

It's worth meellions, but you'll have to fight your way through an angry wife to win it. I don't expect your chances are too good!

joseph · 5/22/2014 2:16 pm

At the risk of being the voice of dissension, I will say that my experience with the Next playtest was relatively good. I don't like feats, and felt that they slowed the game down terribly, but they are entirely optional. I ran I6 Ravenloft with almost no conversion (only drew up Strand and Strand Zombies) and had no issues. Aside from feats, the game flows smoothly and the advantage/disadvantage mechanic was quite nice. I can say that after running 3.0 for years, my first session of Next felt like 2e to me...which was a good thing.

I also feel that some of the races & classes will be unneccesary if not kind of ridiculous, but mechanically it seemed good.

I'm sure its not for everyone, and I'm not saying its the equal of AS&SH, but its worth a shot. The price may be scary, we'll see.

I should also put a disclaimer... who knows what the final product will look like. I sometimes had the feeling that they were throwing stuff into the playtest just to what people said about it. The finished books may be some strange amalgamation of hit-or-miss rules that we had not seen presented together in the test. Again, we'll see.

Last edited by joseph (5/22/2014 2:23 pm)

mabon5127 · 5/22/2014 3:42 pm

joseph wrote:
At the risk of being the voice of dissension, I will say that my experience with the Next playtest was relatively good. I don't like feats, and felt that they slowed the game down terribly, but they are entirely optional. I ran I6 Ravenloft with almost no conversion (only drew up Strand and Strand Zombies) and had no issues. Aside from feats, the game flows smoothly and the advantage/disadvantage mechanic was quite nice. I can say that after running 3.0 for years, my first session of Next felt like 2e to me...which was a good thing.

I also feel that some of the races & classes will be unneccesary if not kind of ridiculous, but mechanically it seemed good.

I'm sure its not for everyone, and I'm not saying its the equal of AS&SH, but its worth a shot. The price may be scary, we'll see.

I should also put a disclaimer... who knows what the final product will look like. I sometimes had the feeling that they were throwing stuff into the playtest just to what people said about it. The finished books may be some strange amalgamation of hit-or-miss rules that we had not seen presented together in the test. Again, we'll see.

I played the latest (at that time) version at a con and found the game fun. I hope the marketing power of WOTC will bring in new young players that we can convert to ASSH.

Yora · 5/22/2014 3:45 pm

I don't know if 5th edition will be terribly bad. Maybe it will be even quite okay.

But why should I care? There are already some 30 versions of D&D around, most of which you can get for $25 or less, and are nowhere near $150. Just being okay isn't going to make me want to buy it. It would have to be a serious improvement over what I am already having. And what I've seen from the playtest versions, there aren't any such improvements. It makes less big mistakes than 3rd edition did, but that's not enough reason to buy it.

Ghul · 5/22/2014 5:56 pm

Thanks for the kind sentiments regarding AS&SH, fellows. I'm delighted to know you enjoy the game, and I plan to keep producing new stuff, regardless of what WotC does with the D&D brand.

Ynas Midgard · 5/23/2014 2:24 am

@ Ghul
That's quite in the the spirit of the OGL.

Handy Haversack · 5/23/2014 10:03 am

By the way, all:

Dragonsfoot has a call out for submissions to Footprints 22, just in case anyone has any AS&SH material they might want to send in. Maybe the Celestial Phenomena table?

I submitted an AD&D version of the spell-research system I made. I wonder if they'd want to publish both AD&D and AS&SH to see the difference? Probably not. I might send in the scorpioids of Xin monster description, though, if they need monsters.

Ghul, is there any problem with submitting AS&SH materials like this for publication in places like FP? Any legal language you'd want included (e.g., "AS&SH is copyright North Wind Games")?

joseph · 5/24/2014 10:18 am

Ghul wrote:
Thanks for the kind sentiments regarding AS&SH, fellows. I'm delighted to know you enjoy the game, and I plan to keep producing new stuff, regardless of what WotC does with the D&D brand.

Right on!

Ghul · 5/24/2014 4:43 pm

Handy Haversack wrote:
By the way, all:

Dragonsfoot has a call out for submissions to Footprints 22, just in case anyone has any AS&SH material they might want to send in. Maybe the Celestial Phenomena table?

I submitted an AD&D version of the spell-research system I made. I wonder if they'd want to publish both AD&D and AS&SH to see the difference? Probably not. I might send in the scorpioids of Xin monster description, though, if they need monsters.

Ghul, is there any problem with submitting AS&SH materials like this for publication in places like FP? Any legal language you'd want included (e.g., "AS&SH is copyright North Wind Games")?

I think AFS is the best place, becasue Scott has been an AS&SH enthusiast from the start, and just about every issue has AS&SH material. But yes, a copyright notification would suffice -- thank you.

Odysseus · 5/27/2014 3:38 pm

I have to admit that the new edition of D&D got me curious (didn't like the 3rd, didn't care for the 4th) and I'm pondering getting the starter set or just waiting for the free Basic D&D pdf they announced.
But I'd rather have WOTC release a new version of Al Qadim.

joseph · 5/28/2014 12:57 pm

Odysseus wrote:
But I'd rather have WOTC release a new version of Al Qadim.

I recall some hints about revisiting old settings, so keep your fingers crossed. Al Qadim was one of my favorite 2E settings and would love to see it revamped!

Druvas · 5/28/2014 1:07 pm

I just don't know what to think about revisiting old settings. I feel like they'll just munchkinize them no matter what setting. I stand waiting with baited breath...

Yora · 5/28/2014 2:00 pm

I think 3rd Edition was okay with what they did to "progress" the timeline in Forgotten Realms. But that world has a completely different style than TSR Forgotten Realms.
Since 4th Edition and their ideas for planes and planar beings, I've adopted the stance as regarding only the original campaign settings as the actual thing. Everything else is "Expanded Universe". Planescape is just Planescape, regardless of what other settings do with their creatures and planes. (And actually, Planescape did whatever the hell it wanted with rewriting pretty much every aspect of the Greyhawk cosmology and doesn't really have any claim to being the "true Great Wheel".)
Forgotten Realms from 2nd Edition is good as it is.
And I just yesterday had a discussion about certain "revalations" about the backstory of Dark Sun, which I consider quite objectionable and against the spirit of the setting, even though the material was released almost immediately after the box set. But what do I care? Original campaign setting it is for me!