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- Magister Litterarum
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- From: US
- Registered: 3/02/2014
- Posts: 290
Thaumaturgical Warlocks and Legerdemainists
With the forthcoming realignment of sorcery schools into thaumaturgical and ecclesiastical categories, I propose expanding access to all thaumaturgical schools to warlocks and legerdemainists. To wit (forgive the crude table format):
Class Name | Spell School | Attribute Requirements | Alignment
Warlock | Magician | ST 12, IN 12 | Any
Ice Lord | Cryomancer | ST 12, IN 12, WS 12 | LG, LE, N
Phantom Lord | Illusionist | ST 12, DX 12, IN 12 | Any
Death Lord | Necromancer | ST 12, IN 12, WS 12 | LE, CE, N
Fire Lord | Pyromancer | ST 12, IN 12, WS 12 | CG, CE, N
Hex Lord | Witch | ST 12, IN 12, CH 12 | CG, CE, N
Legerdemainist | Magician | DX 12, IN 12 | LE, CG, CE, N
Ice Thief | Cryomancer | DX 12, IN 12, WS 12 | LE, N
Mountebank | Illusionist | DX 12, IN 12 | LE, CG, CE, N
Soul Stealer | Necromancer | DX 12, IN 12, WS 12 | LE, CE, N
Fire Thief | Pyromancer | DX 12, IN 12, WS 12 | CG, CE, N
Eyebiter | Witch | DX 12, IN 12, CH 12 | CG, CE, N
Similarly, I submit that purloiners who follow Raven should have access to druid spells instead of cleric spells.
- Ghul
- Dread Necromancer
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- From: Isle of Ghul
- Registered: 3/01/2014
- Posts: 2,639
Re: Thaumaturgical Warlocks and Legerdemainists
A solid suggestion. It's been brought up a number of times before (really, stretching back to 2012), but structured as you suggest, it makes decent sense. However, it is late in the game, and it may fall into the category of "great suggestion, but let's shelf it for future consideration." I'm particularly fond of the phantom lord. I can see orcs falling to their knees and bowing to the phantom lord. Just a passing thought of mine... ;)
HYPERBOREA- A Role-Playing Game of Swords, Sorcery, and Weird Science-Fantasy
- gizmomathboy
- Warlord
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- From: Spiral Mountain Array
- Registered: 5/19/2014
- Posts: 1,322
Re: Thaumaturgical Warlocks and Legerdemainists
/me backs out the changes in my pc_gen app...
Damn it
;-)
What? Me worry?
- Spider of Leng
- Swordsman
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- From: Plateau of Leng
- Registered: 5/05/2018
- Posts: 315
Re: Thaumaturgical Warlocks and Legerdemainists
Funny; just sketching out some character possibilities for an OSR mashup (Hyperborea/Labyrinth Lord/Swords & Wizardry) down the road and one of the PC's will be a Half-elven Illusionist/Thief, so basically a Ledgerdemainist, but I decided we should call him a Mountebank because it sounds cooler.
Definitely like these titles. Reminds me of 1e. Much cooler to say "I'm Akazzikus the Conjurer" as opposed to "I'm Akazzikus the 3rd level magic-user." DCC retains the level titles so I try to encourage my players to use them in the game for added flavor.
"Could you fancy me as a pirate bold? Or a longship Viking warrior with the old gods on his side? Well, I'm an inshore man and I'm nobody's hero. But I'll make you tight for a windy night and a dark ride."--Jethro Tull
- Ghul
- Dread Necromancer
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- From: Isle of Ghul
- Registered: 3/01/2014
- Posts: 2,639
Re: Thaumaturgical Warlocks and Legerdemainists
The titles are fun, and the idea is great for house rules, but it's not something that is going to be done at this time and perhaps ever. It feels forced for sake of completeness. The part that bothers me the most is witch spells. I don't believe they should be cast by other classes. The balance and symmetry of the idea remind me of 5e D&D, which can be fun, but it's a character toolkit game that one customizes a la carte to suit one's character build tastes. I prefer HYPERBOREA to remain more archetypal in its scope, but I always encourage folks to house rule as seen fit. Like I said above -- a solid suggestion, and maybe worth examining in the future, but whether I thought it was cool or not, we are way too far along to implement anything like this, and after ruminating on it further, conceptually I'm less inclined to institute such a change at all. All that being said, phantom lord is excellent. 
HYPERBOREA- A Role-Playing Game of Swords, Sorcery, and Weird Science-Fantasy
- Chainsaw
- Warlord
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- From: South of Heaven
- Registered: 3/02/2014
- Posts: 2,138
Re: Thaumaturgical Warlocks and Legerdemainists
Hear the cry of war louder than before
With his sword in hand to control the land
Crushing metal strikes on this frightening night
Fall onto your knees for the phantom lord
If I ever write another module, I will weave in a phantom lord reference. 
Blackadder23: Insanely long villain soliloquy, then "Your action?"
BORGO'S PLAYER: I shoot him in the face
- gizmomathboy
- Warlord
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- From: Spiral Mountain Array
- Registered: 5/19/2014
- Posts: 1,322
Re: Thaumaturgical Warlocks and Legerdemainists
Ghul, this seemed to be the "best" place to follow up on this.
In 3e did the mechanic of learning spells from a prayer book from a different diety get modified/tossed?
Reading the couple of relevant posts I would guess this is also relaxed if not outright eliminated?
Anything you can share while in between getting the printer cranked up to create all torrent of books that need to be printed and shipped? :-)
What? Me worry?
- Ghul
- Dread Necromancer
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- From: Isle of Ghul
- Registered: 3/01/2014
- Posts: 2,639
Re: Thaumaturgical Warlocks and Legerdemainists
It remains a suggestion to referees that if a cleric or priest is dedicated to but one specific deity (or even a pairing, I suppose), then that deity might not be happy with the one who reads a prayer from an opposing deity. So, if a priest of Apollo starts delving into a Thaumagorga prayer book, I as referee would probably curse the player in some fashion. But it's really not written as a hard rule but rather a guideline for campaign flavor.
HYPERBOREA- A Role-Playing Game of Swords, Sorcery, and Weird Science-Fantasy
- gizmomathboy
- Warlord
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- From: Spiral Mountain Array
- Registered: 5/19/2014
- Posts: 1,322
Re: Thaumaturgical Warlocks and Legerdemainists
Ah, ok. I wasn't sure how far you were relaxing things.
For the instance I need to ponder it would probably be ok for the purloiner
The had to deal with some members of their rogue thieves guild that turned out to be wererats. Everyone worships at the Temple of Rel but one of the pc's is nominally a purloiner of Raven, but still attends Rel services per the guild's practices.
What? Me worry?
- Blackadder23
- The Thousand and First Eye
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- Registered: 3/04/2014
- Posts: 1,551
Re: Thaumaturgical Warlocks and Legerdemainists
I would think Rel and Raven would be compatible cults anyway. At least that's how I would rule it.
Last edited by Blackadder23 (9/20/2021 11:17 pm)
Michael Sipe 1979-2018
Rest in peace, brother.
- gizmomathboy
- Warlord
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- From: Spiral Mountain Array
- Registered: 5/19/2014
- Posts: 1,322
Re: Thaumaturgical Warlocks and Legerdemainists
Yep, I wasn't gonna worry too much of Raven an Rel.
But yeah, Apollo and Thaumagorga are a bit too dissonant.
What? Me worry?
- Master Magician Rennalds
- Rogue
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- From: Katy Tx
- Registered: 1/14/2017
- Posts: 77
Re: Thaumaturgical Warlocks and Legerdemainists
If we are looking at every combination don't forget the Druid spell list Paladin "GREEN KNIGHT" as it were.
it'd take some significant though-- but that is a concept that could make some sense in the setting
Perhaps Morghi himself was a member of such an order
"We alone of all mankind, who are sorcerers of high attainment and mastery, may endure the lethal ice-change and become breathers of the airless void, and thus, in the end, be made suitable for the provender of such as Rlim Shaikorth." sounds great unless you know what Provender means.
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