HYPERBOREA » Hi there! Some basic questions about AS&SH 1e compatibility, &cet

BenA718 · 2/07/2020 8:25 am

Hi there,
First post, glad to have found this community! I am working my way through the 2e Compleat rules (on PDF but I have the hard copy on order) and have a couple of questions regarding compatibility with vanilla 1e. By way of background, I started playing D&D in 1981, have pretty much been a DM 90% of the intervening time, and still regularly run BECMI, B/X, and 1e games as well as Pathfinder and Pathfinder Second Edition.

As I am reading through Compleat rulesbook, I am firstly very impressed with the design of this game; clearly this was designed by someone with a deep technical knowledge and love of 1e. Secondly, all of the ideas that I'm reading seem like a brilliant combination of adopted house rules and hacks that give this end result that is the AS&SH milleu.

My question, however, is more or less that very same thing: can elements of AS&SH be ported to 1e, and vice versa? Or is the fundamental math that AS&SH built upon different enough from 1e to prevent that from happening? For example: could I run City Of The Gods integrating AS&SH classes instead of UA classes? Would they work alongside the vanilla 1e class/race choices or will there be a power difference between them? Or keeping with this example, could I run City of the Gods as a 1e game and just port over the AS&SH combat system?

As I am typing this I guess my real question is: how much of AS&SH is DM toolkit? How modular is it? Or is it a case wherein once you enter the Hyperborea ecosystem, rules-wise, you have to run it in toto or it falls apart?

I know that for BECMI and B/X, you can pretty much port mechanics and sub systems across games without much worry (the Black Hack being the standout example in my mind).

Thanks in advance! I am loving what I'm reading thus far, just not 100% sure what AS&SH is beyond a stand-alone game.

Last edited by BenA718 (2/07/2020 8:29 am)

BlackKnight · 2/07/2020 9:07 am

Hi Ben, And welcome aboard!

the ASSH rules are adaptable to 1e and other OSR systems with little or no translations for the most part in both directions. As is the setting/game style (Sword and Sorcery). Several GMs have been using the ASSH ruleset for other games (they are discussed here on the forums). Monsters/magic/treasures for your games can be pulled from any of the 1e/2e games without much effort.

Happy gaming...

Last edited by BlackKnight (2/07/2020 9:08 am)

BenA718 · 2/07/2020 9:19 am

Thanks for the quick reply!

Handy Haversack · 2/07/2020 10:00 am

Quick and dirty list of adventures we've used in our game in the past year and their system:

Praise the Fallen: OSR/system neutral
The Monastery of Inexorable Truth: S&W
Hybrid Bone Effigy Crucible of the Urgent Chimera: Homebrew AS&SH
The Barbarian King: OD&D
The Charmed Grotto: S&W
House of Flowers: Five Cataclysms
Barrow Mound of the Gravemoor: OSRIC
Brazen Bull: AS&SH
Kellerin's Rumble: S&W?

I barely even glance at system for adventures. It all works fine.

Also: good to see a New Yorker around these parts. You in 718?

BenA718 · 2/07/2020 11:47 am

Thanks for your insights, Handy Haversack!

Yup, I'm in the 718 -- South Brooklyn on the Marine Park/Gerritsen Beach border.

Have you tried mixing AS&SH with 1e classes for PCs?

Last edited by BenA718 (2/07/2020 11:48 am)

Handy Haversack · 2/07/2020 11:52 am

Nice -- we play in Greenpoint but come from Midwood, Bay Ridge, Washington Heights, Woodside, Carroll Gardens, all over the place.

We haven't. I can't think of one from 1e I'd need that isn't represented. We do take classes from a few other places -- mostly blogs. Plus the mystic as written up on this board.

BenA718 · 2/07/2020 12:07 pm

Awesome, thanks for your insights! My group is similar -- we range from Gerritsen Beach to Washington Heights, but game @ Brooklyn Strategist (which is great, btw).

Handy Haversack · 2/07/2020 12:53 pm

BenA718 wrote:
Awesome, thanks for your insights! My group is similar -- we range from Gerritsen Beach to Washington Heights, but game @ Brooklyn Strategist (which is great, btw).

Cool! One of my players ran a 5e public game there for a while. I'm closer to the Twenty-Sided Store so know it a little better than BS -- and then often will just head for the Compleat Strategist if I need a fix!

We should bring the groups together some time!

BenA718 · 2/07/2020 1:08 pm

I was thinking something similar! How many are in your group?

Handy Haversack · 2/07/2020 1:44 pm

Seven of us, generally. Maybe meet for a happy hour or something near Brooklyn Strat some time?

BenA718 · 2/07/2020 1:49 pm

Sure, that sounds like fun! My group is around 7 people as well!

francisca · 2/08/2020 12:01 pm

When I run AS&SH, I run it straight up with the characters as-written in the book, I don't import anything from UA. As of this point, everybody has been satisfied with choice of classes. I have used some monsters (Frost-Men, Ice Trolls, and a few others) straight up from 1e, in terms of AC, HD/hp, damage from attacks, etc... For saves, I go by the HD of the monster and use the AS&SH saves. I haven't found any edge cases yet, and would just make a ruling which hewed close to AS&SH than 1e, and move the game along.

There has been some discussion of spell conversion on this board where there is a 1e spell but no analog in AS&SH.

For me, since I write my own adventures, I haven't had any serious gotchas! happen in-game. However, I did run a game at Gary Con using AS&SH, set in Greyhawk, and essentially converted the characters from the G/D modules to AS&SH for the pre-gens. I'd have to go through them and see what I did and what decisions I made (I'd thought I had passed these on to Guy Fullerton for his most excellent Pre-Gen library, but they aren't there, so maybe I didn't. http://unvisiblecitadel.blogspot.com/2016/06/old-school-pregenerated-character.html)

BenA718 · 2/08/2020 12:04 pm

Thanks for your insights, francisca! Did you run combat RAW or did you simplify it? I've run RAW 1e at PAX and I've never had serious issues with players adjusting to it, so long as the UA is kept out of the mix!

Handy Haversack · 2/08/2020 1:37 pm

BenA718 wrote:
Sure, that sounds like fun! My group is around 7 people as well!

We're playing tomorrow, so I'll see what availability looks like.

BenA718 · 2/08/2020 1:44 pm

Awesome, we're playing today and I'll ask the same! :D

Spider of Leng · 2/10/2020 7:41 am

I've mixed AS&SH classes with standard 1e classes with no issues whatsoever. About the only thing you might consider is the saving throw issue, but I just keep the single save with modifiers for the AS&SH classes and use the standard ones for 1e. When I got the game, I just dropped Hyperborea into my existing 1e campaign world as the North Pole regions. So monsters, characters, etc., sometimes go from the "regular" lands to Hyperborea and vice versa. I even wrote a massive cross-over campaign to include parties from both areas, but I doubt we'll ever play enough to run the whole thing. But yeah, it's a pretty seamless port-over job.

BenA718 · 2/10/2020 11:12 am

Thanks so much for your first hand feedback, Spider of Leng!
My hard copy of the Compleat Rules should be arriving today, looking forward to reading through the rest of the book!

Blackadder23 · 2/10/2020 5:39 pm

Welcome to the forum!
I don't expect Jeff to comment on this topic, for legal reasons, but my opinion (based on reading each set of rules a dozen plus times) is that there is very little daylight between 1e and AS&SH on any issue of substance, and no reason you can't just port anything directly from one to the other.

(By the way, all of the UA classes except the thief-acrobat are already in AS&SH, although the names may have changed - i.e., cavaliers are called by the Classical term "cataphracts" instead.)

Last edited by Blackadder23 (2/10/2020 5:39 pm)

BenA718 · 2/10/2020 7:24 pm

Thanks, Blackadder23! I've not gotten to the classes yet. My hard copy of the Ref's Bundle arrived today, the book looks amazing!

francisca · 2/11/2020 8:43 pm

BenA718 wrote:
Thanks for your insights, francisca! Did you run combat RAW or did you simplify it? I've run RAW 1e at PAX and I've never had serious issues with players adjusting to it, so long as the UA is kept out of the mix!

I run AS&SH combat raw, but generally ignore the phases except when it matters.