HYPERBOREA » House Rules?

Jimm.Iblis · 12/28/2017 8:20 pm

I'm going in the opposite direction, and borrowing a lot from Dungeon World for my pending AS&SH game. A caster memorizes their daily spells, and then rolls a 1d6 when firing them. If the die result is higher than the cast spell, they don't lose it. If the result is equal to the spell level, it can be cast with a cost or lost, player's choice. Being able to recast doesn't "break" DW, at all and I doubt it would break another game--we'll see how it goes. It nicely allows the player magic-user utility throughout the adventuring day while potentially limiting the number of higher level spells being thrown around. And the players don't have to feel like they need to rest constantly.

foxroe · 12/28/2017 8:30 pm

Handy Haversack wrote:
I like adding new and weirder spells to the AS&SH list but not breaking the classes or setting to get at them.

This seems like a reasonable compromise between the two "corruption" camps - add the effects only to certain spells (or home-brewed ones), or allow characters to cast higher level spells (as rituals from spell books or reading from scrolls) but with the added disadvantage of "corruption".
That being said, IMHO, a corruption mechanic already exists: lower hit points.

mabon5127 · 12/28/2017 8:51 pm

foxroe wrote:
That being said, IMHO, a corruption mechanic already exists: lower hit points.

Interesting thought....trying to figure out if I agree or disagree. Dang fine thought.

Grimmshade · 12/28/2017 9:24 pm

First off, magic is actually more common in the Hyborian Age than most people seem to think. Beyond that though, learning sorcery generally requires a lot of work, like becoming a weapon master. If being a weapon master were easy, everyone would be one. It's the same with sorcery. It requires either a master, or books/scrolls of forgotten lore, or finding some artifact, demon, or god that will teach you or that you can force to teach you.
In the end it really all boils down to how you present your particular RPG world.

Edit: neat point about the Hit Points, Foxroe. I'll have to give that some thoughts.

Last edited by Grimmshade (12/28/2017 9:27 pm)

cudgel · 12/28/2017 9:29 pm

Jimm.Iblis wrote:
I'm going in the opposite direction, and borrowing a lot from Dungeon World for my pending AS&SH game. A caster memorizes their daily spells, and then rolls a 1d6 when firing them. If the die result is higher than the cast spell, they don't lose it. If the result is equal to the spell level, it can be cast with a cost or lost, player's choice. Being able to recast doesn't "break" DW, at all and I doubt it would break another game--we'll see how it goes. It nicely allows the player magic-user utility throughout the adventuring day while potentially limiting the number of higher level spells being thrown around. And the players don't have to feel like they need to rest constantly.

That is a very nice idea. Dungeon World has some really great mechanics. Giving players choices makes the game more interesting and engaging.

I have been playing 5e lately. The group I play with relies too much on die rolling to succeed for everything. If you miss the roll you’re stuck. This is a really terrible way to play the game.

I like the thinking in Dungeon World where is a die make a choice, or on a roll you might succeed, or you might succeed with some consequences.

mabon5127 · 12/28/2017 9:42 pm

cudgel wrote:
Blackadder23 wrote:
cudgel wrote:
For me corruption makes the idea of magic make sense. If there were no drawback everyone would be casting spells.
Unless only a small percentage of the population is capable of casting spells.

To me this feels like hand waving the idea to justify character classes and limit the number of wizards on the street.

To me its just a campaign mechanic vs a game mechanic. It makes sense to me to say very few people have the intelligence and drive or are willing to make the sacrifices needed to cast magic. Magic is weird and the vast majority of folks don't want to get any on their hands. This works for me. If the DCC mechanic helps make your system for magic make sense for your campaign then that is cool as well.

cudgel · 12/28/2017 9:56 pm

Grimmshade wrote:
First off, magic is actually more common in the Hyborian Age than most people seem to think. Beyond that though, learning sorcery generally requires a lot of work, like becoming a weapon master. If being a weapon master were easy, everyone would be one. It's the same with sorcery. It requires either a master, or books/scrolls of forgotten lore, or finding some artifact, demon, or god that will teach you or that you can force to teach you.
In the end it really all boils down to how you present your particular RPG world.

Edit: neat point about the Hit Points, Foxroe. I'll have to give that some thoughts.

I like the idea of casting spells costing hit points. I feel this would work well with the hit point system I posted above. This could be really fun with the other suggestion of having the option to pay hit points on a failed spell roll. More choices is more fun as long as it doesn't slow the game down too much.

Blackadder23 · 12/28/2017 11:05 pm

cudgel wrote:
Blackadder23 wrote:
cudgel wrote:
For me corruption makes the idea of magic make sense. If there were no drawback everyone would be casting spells.
Unless only a small percentage of the population is capable of casting spells.

To me this feels like hand waving the idea to justify character classes and limit the number of wizards on the street.

Personally, I respect literary and folkloric precedent over "game" considerations. There are ample examples in both of "born" witches and sorcerers, and bloodlines with special magical powers. It's not a stretch IMO to assume that all PC and NPC magicians are members of such bloodlines, and thus in limited supply.

Brock Savage · 12/29/2017 1:05 am

cudgel wrote:
I have been playing 5e lately. The group I play with relies too much on die rolling to succeed for everything. If you miss the roll you’re stuck. This is a really terrible way to play the game.

I think 5e is a great system but even the best system will suck if your group plays that way. I'm sorry to hear that.

It is incredibly annoying to watch players roll perception checks to ping everything in the dungeon like a radar instead of simply describing what they do. I think a lot of DMs forget that during an investigation, it’s what you do with the clues that’s interesting, not whether or not you get them.

I knew a DM who would frequently make half or more of the party roll multiple dice to resolve situations that could have been handwaved. It drove me nuts. I don't make players roll unless a result of failure is interesting or consequential. As a corollary, I try to make failure interesting whenever possible.

Brock Savage · 12/29/2017 2:13 am

Grimmshade wrote:
First off, magic is actually more common in the Hyborian Age than most people seem to think. Beyond that though, learning sorcery generally requires a lot of work, like becoming a weapon master. If being a weapon master were easy, everyone would be one. It's the same with sorcery. It requires either a master, or books/scrolls of forgotten lore, or finding some artifact, demon, or god that will teach you or that you can force to teach you.

That's pretty much how I look at the practice of sorcery in both Hyboria and Hyperborea.

I imagine that anyone with better-than-average determination and intelligence can theoretically learn sorcery. You could say the same for learning how to make bombs or becoming a skilled assassin in today's world. In practice it's a lot more difficult to learn these skills because even if one has the ability, the opportunity to learn simply isn't there.

Whether it's sorcery or methamphetamine manufacture, dangerous and valuable knowledge is carefully guarded. Real-world power structures regulate or outright ban citizens from bearing arms and making bombs, how much more would they clamp down on sorcerers charming people and turning invisible? Even petty magic that the state couldn't be bothered with policing (e.g. charms to cure impotence or settle an upset stomach) would be closely kept trade secrets by those in the know. It goes without saying that beings both supernatural and mundane beings would demand great compensation for magical knowledge assuming they were willing to share it in the first place.

In my version of Hyperborea, just about wherever one goes, the powers that be will have strong feelings about sorcery. In Khromarium, the use of magic is reigned in by the Magicians' Guild, Hyperborean noble families, and inquisitors of the Xathoqquan Orthodoxy. During festival weeks, with the complicity of the Oligarchy, accused mutants, necromancers, heretics, and daemonologists (i.e. unsanctioned sorcerers and enemies of the city-state) are burned at the stake by witch hunters of the Xathoqquan inquisition in front of large crowds. In reality, there is little risk for the unlawful practice of sorcery provided one is discrete or influential. Punishments for unsanctioned magic are harsh precisely because it is so difficult to enforce.

Rural folk and barbarians tend to look upon magic use with outright hostility unless performed by a native. Even then, the practitioner is frequently viewed through a lens of superstition and fear.

Necromancy is feared and hated almost everywhere but interestingly enough, it is also the most commonly practiced school of magic.

Last edited by Brock Savage (12/29/2017 3:58 am)

Grimmshade · 12/29/2017 8:13 am

Great points Brock. (This thread has gotten way off topic) Just like the perception checks being discussed in 5e, I feel that magic corruption rules are mechanics for something that should be instead done narratively by the GM according to his or her game world. What keeps magic use in check? Fear, superstition, and the difficulty or cost of learning it. It also doesn't hurt to have a magical background; Tsotha-lanti was half demon, Salome was born with a witch mark, etc.

Blackadder23 · 12/29/2017 9:15 am

I feel that corruption (to the extent it exists at all in the source material - i.e., not including ridiculous nonsense like growing tentacles or rotting from the inside out) is already adequately covered by the existing alignment system.

If a PC magician is Good or Neutral, and uses his magic for Evil, the referee should require an involuntary alignment change to Evil.

mabon5127 · 12/29/2017 10:39 am

Grimmshade wrote:
Great points Brock. (This thread has gotten way off topic)

We're good. Still talking houseruling of corruption in spell casting. Just going a little deep on why.

cudgel · 12/30/2017 6:15 pm

I like the idea of necromancy pushing your alignment into the chaotic and or evil realm. This reminds me of the alignment system from Stormbringer. In that system there is only law and chaos, though you ca subscribe to balance and be somewhere between. At higher power characters have to choose. Until then your actions move you closer to one of poles or you strive for balance and stay in the center. All magic is chaotic and the use of magic moves you to chaos.

Something like this could be a good house rule. No good or evil, the only alignments are Law, Chaos, or Neutrality.

Law is not necessarily good, a rigid and unforgiving enforcement of rules is very oppressive.

While chaos is not necessarily evil, imagine wild primitive people and druids.

rhialto · 12/31/2017 8:56 am

cudgel wrote:
I like the idea of necromancy pushing your alignment into the chaotic and or evil realm. This reminds me of the alignment system from Stormbringer. In that system there is only law and chaos, though you ca subscribe to balance and be somewhere between. At higher power characters have to choose. Until then your actions move you closer to one of poles or you strive for balance and stay in the center. All magic is chaotic and the use of magic moves you to chaos.

Something like this could be a good house rule. No good or evil, the only alignments are Law, Chaos, or Neutrality.

Law is not necessarily good, a rigid and unforgiving enforcement of rules is very oppressive.

While chaos is not necessarily evil, imagine wild primitive people and druids.

I actually started my Atlantis game using Stormbringer 5th edition, then switched over to AS&SH a few years ago: I originally only had the Lawful/Neutral/Chaotic alignments, but have since reverted to AS&SH RAW. But it worked just fine, with the only difficulty being acceptance of the house rule by my group.