Very interesting discussion, everyone! Grimmshade, I’m wondering what you might think of Modiphius’s new 2d20 take on Conan, which is advertised as the most “authentic” REH Conan so far. As far as I can tell, that system doesn’t use “corruption” but a “patronage” system that might require less-than-savory upkeep from the sorcerer that could translate, depending on game narrative, into corruption:

“Upon starting along the path of sorcery, each sorcerer must have a patron. This patron might be a demon, a chthonic entity, a god, or most likely, a human master. The earliest portion of arcane training is marked with the acknowledgement of compact or bargain by which the student sorcerer swears allegiance to the patron and promises obedience, service, and other duties in return for guidance along the sorcerer’s way.

“Patrons by their very nature are demanding, and the price of tuition extends and grows. Inevitably, however, there comes a time where the sorcerer must try to force the master to relinquish control and release the sorcerer from all obligation. Suffice to say, many human patrons are seldom willing to see a pupil become a potential rival, and may even become hated enemies should a student rise to power above them.”

When I read REH’s original Conan works, I’m struck by how “natural” and visceral is his representation of sorcery. It reminds me much more of how “natural philosophers” are depicted (Mary Shelley’s _Frankenstein_ references John Dee, Cornelius Agrippa, Paracelsus), whose magics are more a blend of what we would now call regular science _and_ consultation with otherworldly spirits. REH’s sorcerers routinely use powders up the sleeve, or needles with which to inject venoms, but they also have mastered mesmerism or might borrow supernatural abilities from their patrons.

Not to keep flogging this thing, but none of the sorcerers in Howard's Conan stories seems especially irrational or divorced from reality (as opposed to evil and cynical). Even the unnaturally long-lived ones, who would theoretically have the longest exposure to whatever it is that's supposed to cause this so-called "corruption", seem to have a fairly firm grip on reality. So I'm not sure the stories even support the idea of mental "corruption" or sanity loss.

It's all well and good to say, "There might have been hideously deformed or insane sorcerers in Conan's world that we never saw." Sure, but by the same token there might have been hobbits or gold dragons that we never saw. I feel strongly that people creating an RPG purportedly set in a particular world have a responsibility not to add major mechanics that aren't supported by canonical works describing that world. Mongoose didn't fulfill that responsibility, in my opinion. They wrote bad fan fiction and called it Conan.

Eirvit - Here is what I think of the Conan 2d20 RPG:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/103023393131901177911/posts/54LeuVHWY7p

Long story short, the full system is too clunky, the magic system is weak and not particularly Conan, and they are basically writing new (bad) pastiche to fill blanks that don't need to be filled.

I not a big fan of 2d20 though I assisted in their Kickstarter (helping to keep Conan material constant on planet). D20 has a lot of rules, though I do use the game (played about 7 years worth of 3.5 also). I would have preferred a RQ system, but wondering how it would progress. Think they would have needed Feat/Talent system to add to basic rules, or characters would die a lot and Fate Points as d20 Conan from Mongoose did.

I must say I finding AS&SH rules a bit more relaxing (and a lot easy than AD&D 1e, I played near 40 years ago; I 52 now for record), though I use a basic system for fighting based I would say on 3.5. AC 5 =15, and roll every bonus as a plus, +5 need a 10 to hit and basically easy stuff, allow for fast gaming (I hope).

Not sure if you heard of Savage Kingdoms as a system: it just uses one dice for any rule work d20.

Magic and Attack work the same, a basic skill check vs a DL (Difficulty level or Dodge or Parry skill), averaging being rate about +8 to +12, roll d20 add together if it above DL, this counts as damage etc. 10 above DL is 10 damage (save rolling another dice) plus weapon damage, +1 to +4, plus bonus from Attribute concerned.

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Grimmshade wrote:

Caveman - I agree with you about AS&SH. Great balance of system complexity and ease of simulating Hyborian Age adventures. 
I also ran Conan campaigns using AD&D and the two Conan modules back in the early 80's. AS&SH reminds me a lot of those times!

A lot of people really want a Runequest version of Conan, but I ran one about 3 years ago and didn't find it great. 

Yes, this game gives me serious nostalgia for the past, for apart from Ian Holmes blue book, it was AD&D that was my first major game.

Pity about RQ, I was hoping for a better response; I personally do not have the time to consider testing it, so thanks for the thoughts!
 

yes he was susceptible to being made unconscious a lot... (d20 would use Fate Points for that, "left for Dead" or damage that did not penetrate Damage Reduction on armour was treated as non-lethal).

Yes, this was my fear of RQ rules being used, I was hoping some person might have found a conclusion to that problem. Conan; cannot very well be running about with rune magic and protection wards cast on himself!

After RQ 2E, I changed to Stormbringer/Hawkmoon 1E, it also has a high mortality rate, but I love it non-the-less; though most in demonic armour survived a lot unless attacker rolled a critical and armour was ignored; that can cause a few problems!
 

Eirvit wrote:

Grimmshade wrote:

Eirvit - Here is what I think of the Conan 2d20 RPG:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/103023393131901177911/posts/54LeuVHWY7p

Long story short, the full system is too clunky, the magic system is weak and not particularly Conan, and they are basically writing new (bad) pastiche to fill blanks that don't need to be filled.

 
That’s a fascinating challenge, Grimmshade! I want to hunt down the whole series. I suppose you wrote about _Barbarians of Lemuria_? I’ve been wanting to give that one a try, but I realistically can foist only so many systems (and hence so many “worlds”/campaigns) on my players.

For example, when I recently took a break from my long-lasting Norse-emulation Yggdrasill campaign for something clearly more fantastic, I vacillated between 2d20 Conan and Hyperborea. Hyperborea won out, mostly because of its fantastic setting, but also because I sensed that it would take at least four sessions for all of us to get used to the new 2d20 mechanics. My group also is fairly “beer-and-pretzels,” eschewing “roleplaying.” So I’m also getting increasingly interested in solid OSR location-based adventures in sandbox play. (I never played D&D myself — MERP and Champions and d6 Star Wars for me — until 3/3.5.)

We’ve only played one session of “Rats in the Walls”, but so far AS&SH promises to deliver nicely!

Played champions for every genre for 20+ years then got hooked on AS&SH in 2012.  Never looked back.Good system, outta the ballpark classes and setting kept my interest.
 

It occurs to me that a quick way to get Hyborian Age flavor in AS&SH would be to limit spellcasting classes to witches, illusionists, and perhaps priests.

Grimmshade wrote:

Eirvit - Here is what I think of the Conan 2d20 RPG:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/103023393131901177911/posts/54LeuVHWY7p

Long story short, the full system is too clunky, the magic system is weak and not particularly Conan, and they are basically writing new (bad) pastiche to fill blanks that don't need to be filled.

Conan 2d20 doesn't feel as a Conan game but as a regular D&D clone. The book is a pain to read, it's bad written, unclear and boring. Also, some rules are hard to find because they are not in the chapter One would think they would.

It's a bit dissapointment, Modiphius promised a lot more than it accomplished to deliver. Ever felt cheated?

I tried to run a game. I paid so I should play, right? But we (me and my group) weren't able to finish the first session, the rules get in the way and after 3 hours, we still tried to figure how the hell a wizard was supossed to be created. So we dropped this game for ever and went back to Call of Cthulhu.

Clark Astonishing Smith wrote:

Conan 2d20 doesn't feel as a Conan game but as a regular D&D clone. The book is a pain to read, it's bad written, unclear and boring.

It is a stinker, all right, but it fails as a D&D clone in the horribly, utterly railroady-style play it encourages. Have the developers ever tried to "tell a story" through a roleplaying session with actual roleplaying gamers? I wonder, did their playtesters really appreciate being shunted from scene to scene regardless of their choices? To quote great Gygax, "If the dungeon master is directing it, it's not a game." All of their published adventures are the same way. Plot and story, scene after scene, assumptions upon assumptions of PC actions. Ugh.

I did utilize its included scenario "Gathering of Vultures" as a campaign starter, but converted it to Dungeon World fronts and dangers and that's worked out great. Sure enough, the players did nothing resembling the storyboard layout of the adventure and fight every nudge to whatever plot the written scenario tries for, to my delight.
They are having a blast exploring the ziggurat and annoying Neferet, their patron. They are sure the big bad's plan won't culminate until evening and it just happens to be early morning. Plenty of time for brunch and pillaging
 

Last edited by Jimm.Iblis (12/08/2017 9:45 pm)