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1/01/2017 12:51 pm  #1


Monk Empty Hand and Two-Weapon Fighting Discussion

I wanted to do a discussion/clarification on the Monk class - Empty Hands use in Two-Weapon Fighting. 
Specifically on the ruling that Empty Hands attacks are considered WC1 when doing Two-Weapon Fighting.  I would infer that to mean that if not doing Two-Weapon Fighting then it would be WC0 as an unarmed attack?  Personally, I would rule that it is WC0 across the board including in Two-Weapon Fighting.  Below is the various pieces of text from the rules regarding Empty Hand, Unarmed Combat being considered WC0, the rules for Two-Weapon Fighting which includes the note about it being treated as WC1.  Afterwards I list examples of a Monk doing Two-Weapon Fighting comparing using WC0 or WC1.  I don't feel that WC0 makes the monk overly powerful even with 18 Dexerity and that the Monk never exceeds two Empty Hands attacks per round regardless of level.  
Looking for opinions, possible insight to the rules as written and any corrections if I've read something wrong (and fully aware I can rule this how I see fit in my own campaign).
Thanks all.


Empty Hand: Master of the unarmed attack (foot, knee, elbow, etc.). The monk enjoys the following benefits
when fighting sans weapons:
+1 “to hit” bonus.
Weapon-like damage (see table I.25.), plus bonus damage according to strength or accurate strike.


UNARMED COMBAT: To engage in melee without a weapon. Presented below are four basic unarmed
combat forms. Unarmed attacks are considered weapon class 0 (WC 0); hence, most armed combatants attack first if the optional first strike rule is utilized (see COMBAT, initiative), unless they wield WC 1 weapons.



Two-Weapon Fighting:A combatant with 13 or greater dexterity fights with a weapon in each hand in order to gain one extra attack per round. The player must designate a primary and off-hand weapon; neither weapon may be larger than WC 2. No “to hit” bonuses for high strength are realized (though damage bonuses, if applicable, may be), and each attack is assigned a “to hit” penalty equal to the WC of the weapon. Additionally, the off-hand weapon suffers a further −2 “to hit” penalty. (For characters with 17 dex, the additional off-hand penalty is but −1; those of 18 dex are effectively ambidextrous and suffer no extra off-hand penalty.)

Example #1: A character of 13 dex wielding a pair of daggers (both WC 1) suffers a −1 / −3 “to hit” penalty to
his primary / off-hand weapon.
Example #2: A character of 16 dex wielding a pair of scimitars (both WC 2) suffers a −2 / −4 “to hit” penalty to
his primary / off-hand weapon.
Example #3: A character of 17 dex wielding a primary battle axe (WC 2) with an off-hand hand axe
(WC 1)suffers a −2 / −2 “to hit” penalty to his primary / off-hand weapon.
Example #4: A character of 18 dex wielding a primary falcata (WC 1) with an off-hand war hammer
(WC 2)suffers a −1 / −2 “to hit” penalty to his primary / off-hand weapon.

A combatant with normally 1 attack in the round now has 2 attacks (primary, off-hand); one with normally 2
attacks in the round now has 3 (primary, off-hand, primary). The extra attack is made during the same phase
as the other melee attack(s). N.B.: A monk using this technique with his empty hands is treated as if wielding WC 1 weapons.


Examples
Monk Two-weapon fighting empty hands - WC0 vs WC1

Empty hands as WC1 Dex 13-16
Primary +0 to hit (Empty Hand +1, -1 for WC1 Primary)
Off-hand -2 to hit (Empty Hand +1, Two-Weapon Fighting offhand -2, WC1 -1 penalty)

Empty hands as WC0 Dex 13-16
Primary +1 to hit (Empty Hand +1, -0 for WC0 Priimary)
Off-hand -1 to hit (Empty Hand +1, Two-Weapon Fighting off-hand -2, WC0 -0 penalty)


Empty hands as WC1 Dex 17
Primary +0 to hit (Empty Hand +1, -1 for WC1 Primary)
Off-hand -1 to hit (Empty Hand +1, Two-Weapon Fighting offhand -1, WC1 -1 penalty)

Empty hands as WC0 Dex 17
Primary +1 to hit (Empty Hand +1, -0 for WC0 Primary)
Off-hand -0 to hit (Empty Hand +1, Two-Weapon Fighting offhand -1, WC0 -0 penalty)


Empty hands as WC1 Dex 18
Primary +0 to hit (Empty Hand +1, -1 for WC1 Primary)
Off-hand -0 to hit (Empty Hand +1, Two-Weapon Fighting offhand -0, WC1 -1 penalty)

Empty hands as WC0 Dex 18
Primary +1 to hit (Empty Hand +1, -0 for WC0 Primary)
Off-hand +1 to hit (Empty Hand +1, Two-Weapon Fighting offhand -0, WC0 -0 penalty)

 

1/01/2017 8:16 pm  #2


Re: Monk Empty Hand and Two-Weapon Fighting Discussion

Hi, Ironwolf, and welcome to the boards! You'll be pleased to know that one of the minor rule changes in the forthcoming Second Edition will be to make the monk's empty hand attack WC 0 for all purposes. ​Two-weapon fighting​also will include a table to illustrate better the penalties for each weapon.

 

1/01/2017 10:28 pm  #3


Re: Monk Empty Hand and Two-Weapon Fighting Discussion

Thank you for the information, DMPrata.


 

     Thread Starter
 

1/03/2017 7:09 pm  #4


Re: Monk Empty Hand and Two-Weapon Fighting Discussion

Nice. I had just been thinking about this, too.

 

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