HYPERBOREA / Two Weapon Fighting

**Posted by dzubak** 6/03/2014 1:05 pm

A discussion occurred during our on again off again table top AS&SH game this week. Druvas said he would reach out to JT, but I don't see a post on the board. Slacking as usual I see.

Regarding TWF, what was the thought behind lowering the off-hand penalty based on high dexterity? Is it meant to be based (indirectly) on a bonus of some kind, such as the defense adjustment or perhaps the test of dexterity? Or was it meant to limit the number of characters using it as a viable option; i.e. only very high dex (17-18) PCs?

I thought about house ruling it to allow the defense adjustment to lower the penalty for both the primary and off-hand weapons. However, I imagine this would encourage others to try it as a 15 dexterity would give penalties of 0/-2 for WC1 in both hands and -1/-2 for WC2/WC1 combo.

Thoughts.

**Posted by Handy Haversack** 6/03/2014 2:15 pm

Dzubak! Good to see you.

My feeling was that since the round is so much shorter in AS&SH, making some real limits on two-weapon fighting makes sense. It's a pretty powerful technique, so I think it's sensible to make it only rarely attractive to those with quite a good DEX and generally useful only for those with extremely good DEX. We did maunder on about it in another thread, too. I think the one on first-lvl. adventures.

**Posted by Blackadder23** 6/03/2014 2:28 pm

dzubak wrote:
Regarding TWF, what was the thought behind lowering the off-hand penalty based on high dexterity? Is it meant to be based (indirectly) on a bonus of some kind, such as the defense adjustment or perhaps the test of dexterity? Or was it meant to limit the number of characters using it as a viable option; i.e. only very high dex (17-18) PCs?

I assume because better eye-hand coordination would probably make you better at fighting with two hands. I don't think there's a "gamey" reason behind it. It's not unlike the system described in the 1st edition DMG.

**Posted by Druvas** 6/04/2014 7:16 am

hah, Dzubak!

I say give us the bonus for high dexterity! ;-)

Seriously though, there's a restriction on even being able to dual wield, set at a 13 Dex. I think it makes sense that at higher Dex scores, the penalty would decrease. I'd even allow strength bonuses to mitigate the penalty. After all, it's not just about hand-eye coordination, but about the ability to effectively swing two weapons with enough power to brain something.

**Posted by DMPrata** 6/04/2014 10:15 am

dzubak, two-weapon fighting went through numerous revisions in editing until we felt like we had the right balance between realism and game balance. Even at 13 dex, the penalties for fighting with, say, two daggers (–1/–3) are not prohibitive for the advantage of an extra melee attack. We did want to allow those with extremely high dex scores to mitigate the penalties somewhat, while not giving them no reason to ever wield just one weapon. If you look closely at the mathematical progression, you may note a direct correspondence between the additional off-hand penalty and the wielder's dex "to hit" bonus.

**Posted by Benoist** 6/14/2014 9:48 pm

I can't remember right now whether the penalties were too generous or too harsh (I'd have to dig way back into my mail history), but I do remember commenting on this when we were reading the manuscript and trying to develop it in a sensible way. I think TWF came out just fine, in the end, and DMPrata is right, in that it was one of those areas I think we talked about the most.

Last edited by Benoist (6/14/2014 9:49 pm)