Posted by gizmomathboy  1/13/2021 4:46 pm | #1 |
Ok, just diving in...
starting from the last part of this post of mine:
https://hyperborea.boardhost.com/viewtopic.php?pid=23288#p23288
Which is a long winded way to say...what about a tinkerer?
Just savvy enough in the ways of the lost tech to use it, use it better, and maybe repair it.
The name can be better of course, this is all just place holding. What you see is what little thought I've put into this while writing it.
Attribute Requirements:
Dexterity 13, Intelligence 13, Wisdom 13
Prime Attributes: Intelligence, Wisdom
Hit Die Type: d4
Alignment: Any
Armour Allowed: Any
Shields Allowed: Any
Favoured Weapons: Any
Saving Throw Modifier: TBD
Class Abilities:
Folklore like the bard but restricted to artefacts and old tech, for lack of a better description
Item use: some mechanic to better use items like laser swords, radium pistols, amazon skyships, and other things that are more tech than "magic" in nature.
Item repair: mechanize to fix a broken item, or magic otherwise get it working. That scope on the laser rifle that just jammed? Maybe a chance to fix it, or that same rifle ran out of charges they can get an additional charge or two.
Read Languages: can learn/decipher ancient languages, assuming there is a manual about to read
The tinkerer is a heart a scavenger of parts.
What? Me worry?
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Posted by BlackKnight 1/13/2021 8:02 pm | #2 |
Hmm, Not sure how it would go over in Gameplay. Remember Tech and Science have been lost since before the Green Death, over 1000 years ago, or an average of about 25 lifetimes or so. How would the Tinkerer have this knowledge?
Scavenger might work, Maybe even some ability to figure tech out, based on Intelligence/Wisdom, but I wouldn't want any starting characters to be able to walk into a town forge and start cranking out parts for Lazer cannons, nor skyships.
Last edited by BlackKnight (1/13/2021 8:06 pm)
--
BlackKnight, AKA Sausage
Older than Dirt, Crusty, and set in my ways. Been playing TTRPGs for over 45 years...
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Posted by rhialto 1/14/2021 5:43 am | #3 |
Warriors of the Red Planet has a Scientist which closely follows the uses/day of sorcerers in AS&SH: they have "gadgets" which are lost tech and can only be used a limited # of times/day before requiring repairs, recharging, etc.
There's also Fantastic Heroes & Witchery, which has some free sci-fi/sci-fa classes which could be used for inspiration too: Gadgeteer/Savant is closest to what you've proposed, but Scientist might also work.
Definitely worth a look if you want some inspiration for AS&SH. I've toyed with creating one for my AS&SH game, and will work it up this weekend and post here. 
"It is all very well to point out that the man lacks facility; as he asserts, sheer force can overpower sophistication."
Jack Vance, Rhialto the Marvellous
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Posted by gizmomathboy 1/14/2021 11:14 am | #4 |
oooh, yeah, scavenger is a better...vibe than tinkerer.
Yeah, they aren't starting with tech but have a general...feel for it I guess.
I'm still pondering this and seeing if it can lead to something that falls into the weird science vibe.
I think a re-reading of the old gamma world tech figuring out charts might be of use, too.
This is just an investigation into a class that can explore the "weird science" vibe of Hyperborea.
What? Me worry?
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Posted by francisca 1/14/2021 11:56 am | #5 |
BlackKnight wrote:
How would the Tinkerer have this knowledge?
Trial and error. Perhaps a guild of folk looking to restore ancient tech as much as they can. Perhaps knowledge passed down by a dozen generations of those lucky enough to reproduce before they offed themselves in a some comically horrible fashion? A secret society? Who cares, if it's fun?
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Posted by francisca 1/14/2021 11:58 am | #6 |
oooh, yeah, scavenger is a better...vibe than tinkerer.
Technomancer? Artificier? TeeVee Rapairman?
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Posted by gizmomathboy 1/15/2021 1:44 pm | #7 |
Some class abilities to ponder
* magician's alchemy
* detect secret doors as thief types
* thief's manipulate traps
* thief's open locks
* create incendiary oil
* make mechanical/metal based automatons
What? Me worry?
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Posted by rhialto 1/15/2021 8:16 pm | #8 |
Weird Scientist?
"It is all very well to point out that the man lacks facility; as he asserts, sheer force can overpower sophistication."
Jack Vance, Rhialto the Marvellous
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Posted by Iron Ranger 1/15/2021 10:50 pm | #9 |
Machinist.
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Posted by rhialto 1/16/2021 7:48 am | #10 |
My Weird Scientist summary: "WotRP" is Warriors of the Red Planet, which has level-based (1 - 6) weird science/pulp gadgets which mimic sorcery effects.
Weird Scientist
Weird Scientists are masters of forgotten Amazonian, Atlantean and Hyperborean lore, lost technologies, and new weird inventions of their own devising. While most folks fear such things, Weird Scientists are fascinated by such lost lore. Weird Scientists may use any weapons, but typically favor lost artifacts or their own creations. They may wear any mundane armor up to studded leather, unless it is of lost tech, in which case they may wear any armor type of lost Amazonia, Atlantis or Hyperborea.
Attribute Requirements: Dexterity 12, Intelligence 12
Prime Attributes: Dexterity, Intelligence
Hit Die Type: d6
Alignment: Any
Armor Allowed: Light
Shields Allowed: Small
Favored Weapons: Any
Saving Throw Modifiers: Device +2, Avoidance +2
Weird Scientist Class Progression
https://ibb.co/YLxvfF8
Weird Scientist (Thief) Class Abilities:
Gadgets: As per WotRP.
Recharge: As per WotRP.
Clandestine Tongue (Weird Science): The obscure language of pseudo-scientists, a strange tongue in which some words may be unintelligible to an ignorant listener, whereas others might be common yet of alternative meaning. This scientifically opaque tongue is used in conjunction with arcane mathematical formulae. Some call this the tongue of the Anunnaki, a mysterious race predating all known humans of Hyperborea.
Weird Science Item Use: Can utilize magic items normally restricted to Magicians, but only if of a weird science origin.
Read Weird Science: The ability to decipher unintelligible weird science inscriptions or symbols placed on weapons, armor, items, doors, walls, scrolls and other media.
Weird Scientist Gadgets
Weird Scientists have access to numerous Gadgets, grouped by level, plus any additional Gadgets developed or added by the Referee. The Referee may allow the players to devise new Gadgets of their own, using the strength level of existing Gadgets as a guideline.
List of gadgets by level as per WotRP.
"It is all very well to point out that the man lacks facility; as he asserts, sheer force can overpower sophistication."
Jack Vance, Rhialto the Marvellous
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Posted by gizmomathboy 1/16/2021 9:37 am | #11 |
Rhialto, yeah reading the scientist from WatRP and the Savent from FHaW, I think the Scientist is the better fit of the two.
I like your write up a lot.
I find it interesting to see that 9 classes/subclasses use the magician xp progression (2,500xp to get to 2nd level).
I like the changes in attribute requirements. Tech people aren't generally know for their wisdom ;-)
The gadgets/recharge stuff I'm pondering myself into something more ASSH like, but WotRP is a great template to work from.
What? Me worry?
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Posted by rhialto 1/16/2021 4:01 pm | #12 |
Rhialto, yeah reading the scientist from WatRP and the Savent from FHaW, I think the Scientist is the better fit of the two.
I like your write up a lot.
I find it interesting to see that 9 classes/subclasses use the magician xp progression (2,500xp to get to 2nd level).
I like the changes in attribute requirements. Tech people aren't generally know for their wisdom ;-)
The gadgets/recharge stuff I'm pondering myself into something more ASSH like, but WotRP is a great template to work from.
WotRP is the best of the Night Owl Workshop games, IMHO, but the others are solid too. I've leveraged the rules for my Old Terra setting, which is more sword & planet than sword & sorcery, but uses AS&SH as the foundation. I worked up the Mentalist today, too, and realized I forgot to add a 9th-level class ability to the Weird Scientist, so:
(cribbed from the Legerdemainist):
Laboratory: At 9th level, a weird scientist who establishes a suitable laboratory will attract a band of followers: 1d12+12 weird science devotees of 0th level (1d4 hp, each with a smattering of nascent weird science abilities) who will serve without pay in exchange for tutelage under their master. The laboratory might be in a city, town, or village. If said laboratory is part of his castle or fortified manor, with a 5- to 10-mile radius of control, the weird scientist also becomes eligible to attract a small body of men-at-arms, 0th-level fighters of 1d8 hp each.
Here follows a typical troop:
10 shortbowmen (studded armour, short bows, short swords)
10 light crossbowmen (chain mail, small shields, light crossbows, long spears, short swords)
10 halberdiers / pikemen (splint armour, halberds or pikes, hand axes)
Attracted units include one officer, a 2nd-level fighter responsible for the unit and for communication betwixt the weird scientist and his men. If the reputation of the weird scientist is favourable, further troops may be attracted. Men-at-arms receive 10 gp per month for their service, plus 50 gp for the officer. Common inhabitants of the weird scientist’s domain will provide 5 sp in taxes per person per month. Once control and reputation have been established, the weird scientist also will attract 1d2 apprentice weird scientists (0th-level), who will petition him for learning.
"It is all very well to point out that the man lacks facility; as he asserts, sheer force can overpower sophistication."
Jack Vance, Rhialto the Marvellous
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Posted by Spider of Leng 1/16/2021 8:59 pm | #13 |
They can't build supermodels?
"Could you fancy me as a pirate bold? Or a longship Viking warrior with the old gods on his side? Well, I'm an inshore man and I'm nobody's hero. But I'll make you tight for a windy night and a dark ride."--Jethro Tull
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Posted by rhialto 1/17/2021 7:39 am | #14 |
They can't build supermodels?
Why don't people understand my intentions? 
"It is all very well to point out that the man lacks facility; as he asserts, sheer force can overpower sophistication."
Jack Vance, Rhialto the Marvellous
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Posted by mabon5127 1/17/2021 11:48 am | #15 |
How would the Tinkerer have this knowledge?
Trial and error. Perhaps a guild of folk looking to restore ancient tech as much as they can. Perhaps knowledge passed down by a dozen generations of those lucky enough to reproduce before they offed themselves in a some comically horrible fashion? A secret society? Who cares, if it's fun?
Its the same way the Ranger is better at fighting those otherworldly beings! Trained by the previous generation of Rangers and a light salting of trial and error!
“How can I wear the harness of toil
And sweat at the daily round,
While in my soul forever
The drums of Pictdom sound?”
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Posted by mabon5127 1/17/2021 11:50 am | #16 |
My Weird Scientist summary: "WotRP" is Warriors of the Red Planet, which has level-based (1 - 6) weird science/pulp gadgets which mimic sorcery effects.
GREAT GAME! shout out for using this and for this great writeup for the Relic Hunter or whatever you end up calling it!
“How can I wear the harness of toil
And sweat at the daily round,
While in my soul forever
The drums of Pictdom sound?”
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Posted by gizmomathboy 2/03/2021 8:00 pm | #17 |
My first draft, using lots of Rhialto's stuff.
Definitely a rough cut on the identification stuff. I wanted something more than a single roll but not nearly as complex as the Gamma World 1e method. Maybe work up some simple examples for a die to associate with device complexity.
Weird Scientist
Weird Scientists are masters of forgotten Amazonian, Atlantean and Hyperborean lore, lost technologies, and new weird inventions of their own devising. While most folks fear such things, Weird Scientists are fascinated by such lost lore. Weird Scientists may use any weapons, but typically favor lost artifacts or their own creations. They may wear any mundane armor up to studded leather, unless it is of lost tech, in which case they may wear any armor type of lost Amazonia, Atlantis or Hyperborea.The tinkerer is at heart a scavenger of parts.
Attribute Requirements: Dexterity 12, Intelligence 12
Prime Attributes: Dexterity, Intelligence
Hit Die Type: d6
Alignment: Any
Armor Allowed: Light
Shields Allowed: Small
Favored Weapons: Any
Saving Throw Modifiers: Device +2, Avoidance +2
Class Abilities:
Folklore like the bard but restricted to artefacts and old tech, for lack of a better description
Item use: some mechanic to better use items like laser swords, radium pistols, amazon skyships, and other things that are more tech than "magic" in nature.Item repair: mechanize to fix a broken item, or magic otherwise get it working. That scope on the laser rifle that just jammed? Maybe a chance to fix it, or that same rifle ran out of charges they can get an additional charge or two.
Read Languages: can learn/decipher ancient languages, assuming there is a manual about to read
alchemy
create incendiary oil
make mechanical/metal based automatons
Clandestine Tongue (Weird Science): The obscure language of pseudo-scientists, a strange tongue in which some words may be unintelligible to an ignorant listener, whereas others might be common yet of alternative meaning. This scientifically opaque tongue is used in conjunction with arcane mathematical formulae. Some call this the tongue of the Anunnaki, a mysterious race predating all known humans of Hyperborea.
Weird Science Item Use: Can utilize magic items normally restricted to Magicians, but only if of a weird science origin.
Read Weird Science: The ability to decipher unintelligible weird science inscriptions or symbols placed on weapons, armor, items, doors, walls, scrolls and other media.
Artefact Identification: Ability to figure out artefacts.Per the Referee's discretion on the die to use based on the complexity and mystery of the artefact. A successful roll for each stage is required to progress to the next stage. Stage one might be skipped if there is a "normal" analogue, e.g. radium pistol vs crossbow, laser spear vs spear, etc.Stage success is a base 1-4 on the complexity die plus 1 per level of experience (GA : Gadgeteer Ability?)Regardless of success, 1d4 Constitution is used and regained at 1 point per hour or rest. If Constitution drops to 3 or less than the Gadgeteer is knocked unconscious for 24 hours.
[list=1]
Laboratory: At 9th level, a weird scientist who establishes a suitable laboratory will attract a band of followers: 1d12+12 weird science devotees of 0th level (1d4 hp, each with a smattering of nascent weird science abilities) who will serve without pay in exchange for tutelage under their master. The laboratory might be in a city, town, or village. If said laboratory is part of his castle or fortified manor, with a 5- to 10-mile radius of control, the weird scientist also becomes eligible to attract a small body of men-at-arms, 0th-level fighters of 1d8 hp each.Here follows a typical troop:
- 10 shortbowmen (studded armour, short bows, short swords)
- 10 light crossbowmen (chain mail, small shields, light crossbows, long spears, short swords)
- 10 halberdiers / pikemen (splint armour, halberds or pikes, hand axes)
Attracted units include one officer, a 2nd-level fighter responsible for the unit and for communication betwixt the weird scientist and his men. If the reputation of the weird scientist is favourable, further troops may be attracted. Men-at-arms receive 10 gp per month for their service, plus 50 gp for the officer. Common inhabitants of the weird scientist’s domain will provide 5 sp in taxes per person per month. Once control and reputation have been established, the weird scientist also will attract 1d2 apprentice weird scientists (0th-level), who will petition him for learning.
Progressive Thief Abilities:
detect secret doors
manipulate traps
open locks
What? Me worry?
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Posted by rhialto 2/04/2021 8:52 am | #18 |
Looks like a good start: I'd remove the "Weird Science Item Use" if you're going to add the "Item Use" and "Item Repair", and just add to those two as needed. For "make mechanical/metal based automatons" maybe broaden it to "gadgets"? The "Artefact Identification" seems clunky to me: I'd be more inclined to repurpose the Magician's or Cleric's "% chance to know spell" mechanic to figure an item out.
"It is all very well to point out that the man lacks facility; as he asserts, sheer force can overpower sophistication."
Jack Vance, Rhialto the Marvellous
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Posted by gizmomathboy 2/04/2021 10:49 am | #19 |
Yeah, definitely some redundancy in there.
I also need to add in a progression table.
It's close to being ready to do some play testing.
A pc got killed in my last session so they are open to giving it a shot if I have something ready.
What? Me worry?
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Posted by rhialto 2/05/2021 5:32 am | #20 |
A pc got killed in my last session so they are open to giving it a shot if I have something ready.
What a weird coincidence...
"It is all very well to point out that the man lacks facility; as he asserts, sheer force can overpower sophistication."
Jack Vance, Rhialto the Marvellous
