Blackadder23 wrote:

90% of the time I just roll the treasure class as found in the rules, and use whatever comes up randomly.

I do this as well. I like to be suprised by items the characters receive. I dont like having powerful item so I severely limit charges and uses lest the item become the character!

One of the first items one of the characters got was a zirconium suit. I just determined that it was badly beat up and had few crits left. The fighter enjoyed being uber powerful for a bit then traded the useless ancient tech for something he needed.

Just depends on your idea of Hyperborea or any other world you use the rules for.

Hyperborea is a world where magic items cannot be generated anymore; bar minor items like potions, still the only way to get magic items is to delve; and this is from Hyperborean ruins or ancient alien civilizations. So, in theory it should be a trial to achieve them.

As a so-called GM I place average to low amount of magic items, so obvious like +1 weapons, but I must admit I find it difficult to gauge an average myself. If creating a Hyperborean tomb and the tomb is for rich Sorcerer-kings and Witch-queens, how can I not add unique items to every tomb if the theory is the tomb has never been looted before and it becomes a glut of magic items because realistically they would be adorned with them.

Still average to low (but mostly low) amount of Magic items.

Perhaps an item only (even swords, etc) has a life-span, perhaps it is created for only one task (kill the demon of …???) then the blade turns to dust?

I have found myself creating minor magic or non-magic items (that can cause a spell-like effect, though non-magical) as interesting unique items that (I hope0 can be fun to play. 

Snake-charming flutes, non corroding scroll-cases, etc, but no major blast your dead effects... Think this keeps it interesting.

As with some of the Conan stories, he get a magical item, girdle (Yimsha), sword (Phoenix), Knife (Iron-god) then later it is gone in next story. So, perhaps if players are not grumblers, just take what you think has become to powerful off them.

 

Directly comparing the treasure tables in the 2e AS&SH rulebook with those in the 1e AD&D Monster Manual reveals the chance of magic appearing in each treasure class/type to be roughly the same, or sometimes actually higher in AS&SH. From this I would conclude that it was not an intended part of the game design that magic items be rarer in Hyperborea than in the typical AD&D game. This is reinforced by the large number of magic items possessed by the higher level versions of the sample characters in the 2e rulebook; they seem at least as well-equipped with magic as the NPCs in AD&D modules.

Of course any DM should regulate these items in AS&SH as he wishes, just as any DM should do so in AD&D. I just think it's important to note what is, and what is not, a default assumption of the game.

Last edited by Blackadder23 (6/08/2019 3:52 pm)

DMPrata wrote:

Have a look at the Rogues Gallery characters in APPENDIX C of the Second Edition hardback for a sense of how much magic PCs of various levels might have.

The amount of magic possessed by the higher level sample characters seems spot on to me. My characters have "had" more items than this but they get used up, lost or destroyed, sold or traded. The amount of cash held by the sample characters is where I would want my player characters to be but they end up with too much money.  Oh well. 

 

mabon5127 wrote:

Blackadder23 wrote:

Directly comparing the treasure tables in the 2e AS&SH rulebook with those in the 1e AD&D Monster Manual reveals the chance of magic appearing in each treasure class/type to be roughly the same, or sometimes actually higher in AS&SH. From this I would conclude that it was not an intended part of the game design that magic items be rarer in Hyperborea than in the typical AD&D game. This is reinforced by the large number of magic items possessed by the higher level versions of the sample characters in the 2e rulebook; they seem at least as well-equipped with magic as the NPCs in AD&D modules.

Of course any DM should regulate these items in AS&SH as he wishes, just as any DM should do so in AD&D. I just think it's important to note what is, and what is not, a default assumption of the game.

I would be interested to know if Jeff went to this much analysis to create the default assumption for found magic in the game. He does mention that it is not the purvue of characters to create magic items beyond scrolls and potions in this dying Earth type of setting, the knowledge has been lost. Though the letter of the game may produce found magic items at a similar rate of earlier games, the spirit says that they are rarer due to lack of current creation of magic items, just a thought. Great analysis.

On cursory examination, it appears that the treasure types were mostly carried over directly from AD&D (with tweaks that generally increase the amount of magical - and, on another note, monetary - treasure) and that most monsters have the same treasure type. Where the AS&SH treasure class differs, it generally yields more magical treasure rather than less. As I already mentioned, cave-men in AD&D never have magic items, while their AS&SH counterparts have a 20% chance of any two magic items and a 40% chance of 2d4 potions. As another example, a lich in AD&D has treasure type A, which gives a mere 30% chance of any 3 items. That same lich in AS&SH has treasure class U, which yields a 70% chance of 1 of each magic except potions or scrolls, or 8 items. So the AS&SH lich has more than double the chance for more than double the number of items. All of which is to say that, in my mind, whether PCs can create magic items is a separate issue from how much magical loot is already cached around Hyperborea, and that the numbers in the AS&SH rules (taken at face value) suggest a default assumption that this quantity of cached magical loot is not less than that found in the typical AD&D campaign operating on the default assumptions in those rules.

(It's also not quite the case that all magic items in Hyperborea, apart from potions and scrolls, are artifacts of an earlier time. It's stated in the rules that snake-men, dwarfs, daemons, NPC witches, and aliens are still manufacturing various magic items; I would speculate that the items associated with various deities are probably still being created by those deities or their powerful NPC servants. So there is still an influx of magical items of many types into Hyperborea. Additionally, this situation isn't 100% different from AD&D. On page 116 of the DMG, Gary lists numerous items, mostly arms and armor, that can only be made by NPC dwarves and elves; by the book, PCs can't even manufacture magical arrows! This is really only a difference of degree, rather than kind, from a Hyperborea where all magical arms and armor come from dwarfs. Or at least that's my opinion!)

I'm working on a module, I'm putting in only the items that I want To be Placed in the setting (items that I feel the NPCs/Monsters would have). Noting that this is Above and beyond the monster Treasure Classes,

How do you all feel when Modules have Set Items, Should I actually put all the items in an encounter? or just keep it with the ones that I want/need present...

BlackKnight wrote:

I'm working on a module, I'm putting in only the items that I want To be Placed in the setting (items that I feel the NPCs/Monsters would have). Noting that this is Above and beyond the monster Treasure Classes,

How do you all feel when Modules have Set Items, Should I actually put all the items in an encounter? or just keep it with the ones that I want/need present...

I think it's fine to choose the items, or roll, or a combination, or whatever the DM wants.

I just prefer to roll because it feels more like I'm playing a game too.
 

At BlackKnight is place what you want,,,

At Blackadder, yeah noticed the % were sometimes higher myself, but are they high enough?

(To any, help) My problem in creating a scenario, is what to place?

Example if a low level scenario: 1-3 levels, it should be +1 dagger, a CLW potion and a few minor items for whole dungeon..

But truth is I creating an ancient Hyperborean tomb-complex, a massive 3 level dungeon and it is meant to be a tomb that is (mostly) 95% untouched by outside hands in a thousand years and full of these Hyperborean lords and sorcerers and if I allow a bunch of 1st level to loot their tombs, they will walking away with priceless treasures, magical and otherwise because it fits the essence of the location, but feels to me like it might destroy the balance of the game.

I must admit it has put a halt to my mental focus on finishing the complex and is like a small mega-dungeon and it is frustrates pondering what to add to each tomb and considering most tombs are not even got an animated skeleton in it or a zombie, just open it, see a 800 gp gem encrusted necklace, two rings worth 500 gp and a +1 longsword? and this is a 1st level scenario, they be laughing to the bank; and an added note: as jewellery is 1,000 years old it worth 2 to 5 times more to an interested collector?

So, theory is how can I judge treasure even using the chart if in fact there is no monster there. For in truth the monster (dead Hyperborean) was once a 12 level sorcerer and was buried with a lot of his possession in case he was brought back to life in the future (a typical mental hope of a dying Sorcerer-king)?

Most frustrating... 

Truth is the dungeon is an expansion of the Dungeon in the Blue book of Zenopus' Ruined Tower and as it was for beginning characters and I was attempting to keep it the same (a beginning character's dungeon for 1-3 levels), but I am starting to think it should be for 6+ level and it is ruining my desire to keep it a 1st level; at least for start of adventure...

Any suggestions?

Caveman wrote:

Any suggestions?

If you're feeling evil, you can take a page from the book Han Solo and the Lost Legacy: make most of the "treasure" items that were extremely valuable in ancient times, but which have little or no value in modern Hyperborea. For example, ingots of some alloy which the Hyperboreans were able to forge into magical weapons of great power, but which have no use or value anymore. Or artificial glass "gems" which were the key to mighty Hyperborean rituals, but which are utterly useless now. Or maps leading to the "treasuries of the King" - all of which were looted ages ago. And so forth...

If you do this, you can justly point out that the tomb is bursting with (formerly) valuable materials. Just be sure to put some actual gold and gems in the tomb as well, unless you never want to game with these people again!