rhialto wrote:

Interesting approach, and similar to what I did: 4d6 drop lowest, but in order. Everyone wound up qualifying for the class they wanted, and the party has a Fighter with Str 11 and Legerdemainist with Con 17. And one of the nice things about AS&SH is that, for example, the Fighter with Str 11 is still the best combatant, due to Great Mastery with Bastard Sword. In fact, my group is more familiar with Pathfinder, and they have remarked how different this is. One of our youngest players (13), who was guest-playing the Fighter (and has now assumed the role full-time), said "This is not an optimal Fighter build." Very true, because it's a randomly-rolled character, and still perfectly enjoyable. 

Just rolled up characters with 4d6 drop, in order, with one swap.  Everyone got the character they wanted.  I like when you get an intelligent fighter or a strong sorcerer.  In my last campaign I had a fighter with a Str of 12 get to 8th level so the stats don't win the day its the player.

@Ynas, yeah, that's a good point.  The highest overall average of my characters was the Berserker, with a 13.8.  The Berserker requires 2 attributes of 15.  I don't remember the original roll, but I believe both of required stats were below minimum and got bumped, and then he added 1 to ST with the Age bonus.
Players overly concerned with attributes could just pick the classes with highest minimum attribute requirements.  I don't think most players are that ridiculous though, and mostly just want to play the archetype they're in the mood for.

As for the 4d6 drop lowest, with or without swapping, as I said before, it always feels like a bit too much of a power creep to me, and unless you allow assigning as you like, there's still no guarantee that you'll hit high enough in required attributes.

I had a similar idea, based on Mongooses Heroic stat arrangement, but the Mongoose Heroic Characters are Based on 1d10+8. (They still have a 4d6 remove lowest order).

The theory at it basically 3.0 or 3.5 rules, that only a -1 negative can be achieved and no lower, with 9 minimum.

But, Like Under_Score, I have thought to arrange the dice, so at Heroic Character, could roll 1d8+10 x2, 1d0+8 x2, then 4d6 remove lowest for remaining two attributes (arrange as suits), just of course for some major heroic group. Not an idea for every game, just the odd one for a different perspective.

I do enjoy being the snarling old soldier when it comes to any OD&D game...

under_score wrote:

As for the 4d6 drop lowest, with or without swapping, as I said before, it always feels like a bit too much of a power creep to me, and unless you allow assigning as you like, there's still no guarantee that you'll hit high enough in required attributes.

We are coming at it from two perspectives I suppose.  They have access to higher average attributes but may not have the ability to play all the subclasses.  You want them to have access to all subclasses and that's cool.

Another way to achieve the same thing would be to ignore the attribute requirements.  This could lead to some RPing stuff when the Berserker has a Strength of 9.  Bob doesn't look like much but don't make him mad.


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The class Berserker is set apart and different from the savage men given to chewing lotus to madness!  Thankfully the more numerous group doesn't get all the class abilities!

One of the methods we use is 4d6, drop 1, seven times. Then the player can eliminate one stat and collapse the rest. Allows more flexibility if there's a specific class the player wants but still is influence by chance.

I disincentivize it by allowing rerolls of HP and starting gold if you roll 3d6 in order or one of those if you roll 4d6 six times.

I've told my players that what mostly makes them heroic, and a cut above the NPCs, is their level: that neatly encapsulates all the intangibles that elevate them above the madding crowd. If they also happen to have some good attributes that's a bonus, and more in the vein of Conan, Kane, John Carter, etc. Which is fine, too, if that's the tone of the game.

Grimmshade wrote:

I guess I'm the hippy, although I prefer punk. Even though I come from the dawn of the RPG, I generally allow point spread assigned Attributes. Three reasons for this:
1) We play pulp / heroic Conan type campaigns.
2) My players (and I) have a character concept going into the game, and don't do great with the "play what your delt" philosophy.
3) We all roll like crap most of the time. If those Attributes in the original post were from our group everyone would have at least 3 or 4 Attributes of 8 or less. Seriously, rolled characters in our group start out below any of the NPC's found in the town and adventure in the 2e book. I'd prefer they all get to play characters more like the pregens in the 2e book (all of which have fairly good Attributes).

Just my anti-roll 2 cents.

(I freely admit that the downside is that nobody ever plays the old worn out soldier, or such. It's hard enough however to get players accepting that rogues and wizards aren't super combatants like most "modern" games.

I think players invest more in characters they like.  If they focus on crummy attributes then I as the DM won't have fun either. I had a player roll up a cryomancer with a 7 strength and 7 dexterity.  He is embracing this as part of his character.  Would he have been happier with a 15+ in each of those? Maybe, but that is the type of player he is.

I get to play on occasion under another DM so I get to understand the players position.  Its helpful when I run.
 

Grimmshade wrote:

I guess I'm the hippy, although I prefer punk. Even though I come from the dawn of the RPG, I generally allow point spread assigned Attributes. Three reasons for this:
1) We play pulp / heroic Conan type campaigns.
2) My players (and I) have a character concept going into the game, and don't do great with the "play what your delt" philosophy.
3) We all roll like crap most of the time. If those Attributes in the original post were from our group everyone would have at least 3 or 4 Attributes of 8 or less. Seriously, rolled characters in our group start out below any of the NPC's found in the town and adventure in the 2e book. I'd prefer they all get to play characters more like the pregens in the 2e book (all of which have fairly good Attributes).

Just my anti-roll 2 cents.

(I freely admit that the downside is that nobody ever plays the old worn out soldier, or such. It's hard enough however to get players accepting that rogues and wizards aren't super combatants like most "modern" games.

My group tends towards this too, but they have other opportunities to indulge this way, so I was able to convince them to try 4d6 drop lowest, in order, "just this once". I may have meant "once" as in "in all my AS&SH campaigns", but even I don't know for sure.