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10/10/2020 8:09 pm  #1


Unsafe casting, extra spells, and miscast ideas?

Hey there. We are having a blast playing ASSH in a campaign where casters are off the table except for runegravers, shamans, and rangers. (Should they live that long!)

however, as we were talking about how phenomenal the system is, some of us wished for something like the VAM magic system from LotFP that allowed for casting outside of the normal list, but at a risk. 

While my friend Eloy came up with a fantastic idea for a system that we will have to try, it is a complete departure from the usual tables. I seem to recall Handy Haversack and others talking about treating the usual spell tables as “what you can cast safely”, and having some sort of rules for attempting to cast outside of the normal allotment. 

anybody have experience with some rules like this that you can share or link?

thanks, 

ivan


Giant centipedes? Why did it have to be giant centipedes?
 

12/05/2020 5:42 am  #2


Re: Unsafe casting, extra spells, and miscast ideas?

There was an interesting house-rule posted by deathknight in a recent discussion here: https://hyperborea.boardhost.com/viewtopic.php?id=1114&p=2
 
Scroll down to near the end of the discussion (second page), and look at deathknight’s fourth-house rule. This basically permits core class wizards to learn spells from other spell lists. Not sure if this is quite what you are after, but struck me as a neat idea.

I’d also toyed with magical corruption - see here: https://hyperborea.boardhost.com/viewtopic.php?id=355

Again, may not be quite what you are after, but may give some ideas for ‘when things go wrong...’

 

12/13/2020 4:34 pm  #3


Re: Unsafe casting, extra spells, and miscast ideas?

If you can, it might be worth checking out Dungeon Crawl Classics.  They have lots of random tables for miscasts and corruption.  And you could even just buy their reference guide for $9.95, which just has all the tables if you don't want the whole rulebook.  It should port to AS&SH quite easily.


"Could you fancy me as a pirate bold?  Or a longship Viking warrior with the old gods on his side?  Well, I'm an inshore man and I'm nobody's hero.  But I'll make you tight for a windy night and a dark ride."--Jethro Tull
 

1/13/2021 5:33 am  #4


Re: Unsafe casting, extra spells, and miscast ideas?

For a simple take on this check out Through Sunken Lands: it's the swords & sorcery version of Beyond the Wall, and each includes standard Vancian/AS&SH spellcasting, with the addition of roll-to-cast cantrips and rituals. Easily added to an AS&SH game. The background generation booklets are a nice add-on to an AS&SH game, too.

What is "something like the VAM magic system from LotFP"? I'm not familiar with that.


"An idea of great merit! While we are alive we should sit among colored lights and taste good wines, and discuss our adventures in far places; when we are dead, the opportunity is past."
Jack Vance, Maske: Thaery
 

1/13/2021 6:20 am  #5


Re: Unsafe casting, extra spells, and miscast ideas?

Ah, nevermind about the VAM question, figured it out. https://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/shocked.png


"An idea of great merit! While we are alive we should sit among colored lights and taste good wines, and discuss our adventures in far places; when we are dead, the opportunity is past."
Jack Vance, Maske: Thaery
 

1/13/2021 4:11 pm  #6


Re: Unsafe casting, extra spells, and miscast ideas?

rhialto wrote:

Ah, nevermind about the VAM question, figured it out. https://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/shocked.png

I still have no clue!
 


Astonishing Swordsmen & Sorcerers of Hyperborea - A Role-Playing Game of Swords, Sorcery, and Weird Fantasy
 

1/13/2021 7:39 pm  #7


Re: Unsafe casting, extra spells, and miscast ideas?

Ghul wrote:

rhialto wrote:

Ah, nevermind about the VAM question, figured it out. https://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/shocked.png

I still have no clue!
 

Suffice to say, bereft of edgy cruft, it's a "roll a SV to overcast" system with random misfires if you fail. The table of spell names based on metal songs is useful, too. Worth the $0 I spent on it.


"An idea of great merit! While we are alive we should sit among colored lights and taste good wines, and discuss our adventures in far places; when we are dead, the opportunity is past."
Jack Vance, Maske: Thaery
 

1/14/2021 2:31 pm  #8


Re: Unsafe casting, extra spells, and miscast ideas?

Ahh, I see. I don't favor the concept, personally, but to each his own. The only time we used something like it to amusing effect was with the AD&D 2E Tome of Magic and its "wild magic." It was OK. Sometimes funny, more often annoying (IMO), so I suppose I'm not terribly fond of magic systems that are crazily random. 


Astonishing Swordsmen & Sorcerers of Hyperborea - A Role-Playing Game of Swords, Sorcery, and Weird Fantasy
 

1/14/2021 10:12 pm  #9


Re: Unsafe casting, extra spells, and miscast ideas?

See attachment for what we're implementing in our forthcoming OSE campaign, cribbing a bit from DCC.  I'm worried it may get a bit clunky, but we are keeping regular spell effects unlike the complicated way they work in DCC.  I just wanted a bit of danger and randomness added.  And I like the idea of having to roll randomly for spells rather than choosing since it seems that people tend to choose the same few spells, especially at low levels.  The DCC clerical healing lay on hands ability is also quite cool and helps obviate the need to load up on healing spells...Ø  Spells must be rolled randomlyØ  All arcane casters must make a mercurial magic roll when they learn a new spell (See DCC chart)Ø  All arcane spells have a failure rate equal to their spell level.  So 6% for a 6th level spell.  Roll d100 every time a spell is cast to check for failure.  If spell fails for arcane casters, first roll on DCC misfire chart and apply result.  Then caster makes a Charisma check on a d20.  If they fail, corruption occurs.  For spell levels 1-2=Minor Corruption; levels 3-4=Major Corruption; levels 5-6=Greater Corruption.  Roll on appropriate DCC table.Ø  For divine spells, base chance of failure is 1 in 20.  Roll d20 every time a spell is cast; if roll is 1; divine disfavor may occur.  Roll Charisma check on d20 and if it’s failed, roll on the deity disapproval table.  For each failure on a given day, the chance of failure & disapproval increases by one.  So if you failed a check, the next spell the chance is 2 in 20, etc.  Resets each day.Ø  Clerics and druids may lay on hands as per DCC.  Roll d20+Cha modifier+level and consult DCC table

For spells cast from scrolls, base chance of failure is 1 in 20, unless it’s a thief, where the chance is 2 in 20.  Roll on spell mishap table.

Last edited by Spider of Leng (1/14/2021 10:16 pm)


"Could you fancy me as a pirate bold?  Or a longship Viking warrior with the old gods on his side?  Well, I'm an inshore man and I'm nobody's hero.  But I'll make you tight for a windy night and a dark ride."--Jethro Tull
 

1/15/2021 12:33 pm  #10


Re: Unsafe casting, extra spells, and miscast ideas?

Ghul wrote:

Ahh, I see. I don't favor the concept, personally, but to each his own. The only time we used something like it to amusing effect was with the AD&D 2E Tome of Magic and its "wild magic." It was OK. Sometimes funny, more often annoying (IMO), so I suppose I'm not terribly fond of magic systems that are crazily random. 

Yes, me either, but I do like having as a players' option something like this: that is, the player can decide if they want to press their luck, but the Vancian system is the norm.


"An idea of great merit! While we are alive we should sit among colored lights and taste good wines, and discuss our adventures in far places; when we are dead, the opportunity is past."
Jack Vance, Maske: Thaery
 

1/15/2021 1:49 pm  #11


Re: Unsafe casting, extra spells, and miscast ideas?

rhialto wrote:

Ghul wrote:

Ahh, I see. I don't favor the concept, personally, but to each his own. The only time we used something like it to amusing effect was with the AD&D 2E Tome of Magic and its "wild magic." It was OK. Sometimes funny, more often annoying (IMO), so I suppose I'm not terribly fond of magic systems that are crazily random. 

Yes, me either, but I do like having as a players' option something like this: that is, the player can decide if they want to press their luck, but the Vancian system is the norm.

 
Yeah, Vancian as the norm with the ability to do something desperate with a chance of spectacular failure/success seems about right.

Have some kind of roll that determines if it's a critical success or a critical failure. One could even use the woe and crit tables we already have as a guide.

If the spell does damage then that's an easy thing, if not, maybe the duration or whatever is modified accordingly.

I'm not sure I would use it, but it seems like a simple mod that is closer to what Hyperborea is than a jump to something DCC-like.

Yeah, I might be trying to create another class in another thread, but I'm doing what I can to work within the bounds of the system and the systems it drew from. :-)


What? Me worry?
 

1/15/2021 7:52 pm  #12


Re: Unsafe casting, extra spells, and miscast ideas?

gizmomathboy wrote:

Yeah, Vancian as the norm with the ability to do something desperate with a chance of spectacular failure/success seems about right.

Have some kind of roll that determines if it's a critical success or a critical failure. One could even use the woe and crit tables we already have as a guide.

If the spell does damage then that's an easy thing, if not, maybe the duration or whatever is modified accordingly.

I'm not sure I would use it, but it seems like a simple mod that is closer to what Hyperborea is than a jump to something DCC-like.

Yeah, I might be trying to create another class in another thread, but I'm doing what I can to work within the bounds of the system and the systems it drew from. :-)

Through Sunken Lands and Beyond the Wall are good models: Spells are Vancian (memorize, #/day, casting works unless caster is disrupted), but Cantrips (minor, non-damaging magic) and Rituals (lengthy casting times of 1hr./level of ritual) are rolled on a characteristic score or less = success basis, with failure meaning some Ref-generated side effect or loss of all magic the rest of the day (Cantrips) or success with unforeseen side effects (Rituals). Very easily added to AS&SH.


"An idea of great merit! While we are alive we should sit among colored lights and taste good wines, and discuss our adventures in far places; when we are dead, the opportunity is past."
Jack Vance, Maske: Thaery
 

Yesterday 1:20 pm  #13


Re: Unsafe casting, extra spells, and miscast ideas?

rhialto wrote:

gizmomathboy wrote:

Yeah, Vancian as the norm with the ability to do something desperate with a chance of spectacular failure/success seems about right.

Have some kind of roll that determines if it's a critical success or a critical failure. One could even use the woe and crit tables we already have as a guide.

If the spell does damage then that's an easy thing, if not, maybe the duration or whatever is modified accordingly.

I'm not sure I would use it, but it seems like a simple mod that is closer to what Hyperborea is than a jump to something DCC-like.

Yeah, I might be trying to create another class in another thread, but I'm doing what I can to work within the bounds of the system and the systems it drew from. :-)

Through Sunken Lands and Beyond the Wall are good models: Spells are Vancian (memorize, #/day, casting works unless caster is disrupted), but Cantrips (minor, non-damaging magic) and Rituals (lengthy casting times of 1hr./level of ritual) are rolled on a characteristic score or less = success basis, with failure meaning some Ref-generated side effect or loss of all magic the rest of the day (Cantrips) or success with unforeseen side effects (Rituals). Very easily added to AS&SH.

looking forward to seeing Through the Sunken Lands in print the PDF is great but I'm old and prefer books.
 


“How can I wear the harness of toil
And sweat at the daily round,
While in my soul forever
The drums of Pictdom sound?” 
 

Yesterday 6:45 pm  #14


Re: Unsafe casting, extra spells, and miscast ideas?

mabon5127 wrote:

looking forward to seeing Through the Sunken Lands in print the PDF is great but I'm old and prefer books.

Me too, though it wasn't so bad on my iPad. I have the idea to use it for a Khromarium-based campaign now, using the playbooks as the background generator, then letting folks pick their AS&SH class.


"An idea of great merit! While we are alive we should sit among colored lights and taste good wines, and discuss our adventures in far places; when we are dead, the opportunity is past."
Jack Vance, Maske: Thaery
 

Yesterday 8:07 pm  #15


Re: Unsafe casting, extra spells, and miscast ideas?

rhialto wrote:

mabon5127 wrote:

looking forward to seeing Through the Sunken Lands in print the PDF is great but I'm old and prefer books.

Me too, though it wasn't so bad on my iPad. I have the idea to use it for a Khromarium-based campaign now, using the playbooks as the background generator, then letting folks pick their AS&SH class.

I always thought this would be a good idea and it looks like they have done the work!


“How can I wear the harness of toil
And sweat at the daily round,
While in my soul forever
The drums of Pictdom sound?” 
 

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