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9/24/2019 6:06 am  #1


Command and hold person

 Command - So foolishly I had not read this spell till right before it was used, so I didn't realize the differences from other systems version till that moment.  Duration of 6 rounds. So would most people just have the victim just "fall" down and then he can get back up or is he stuck down for the full minute? I ruled that after they attacked it, the werewolf was free to get back up. Any one care to share how they rule on this?

Hold Person- Duration 1 hour this seems crazy long to me is it possibly a mistake. would you grant another saving throw if they attack the person, or is the person vulnerable to insta kill? Our situation Lodinn made the save on the hold but it got me thinking so i was prepared for it in the future.

Part of why I questioned it was these spells were going to negate the encounter that I was thinking would be at least a challenge. It ended up a bit underwhelming,Also I don't care to punish the players for playing smart either.


 


Has anyone seen one? Has anyone seen one in a hundred years??
 
 

9/24/2019 6:46 am  #2


Re: Command and hold person

Thrasaric wrote:

Part of why I questioned it was these spells were going to negate the encounter that I was thinking would be at least a challenge. 

Hi Thrasaric. as you realised, there is a reason your players chose these spells!  Consider also how quickly one Sleep spell can end an encounter with weak opponents.  These three spells (and one or two others) are intended to be powerful tools in the hand of a low-level party.

Command:  when you think about it, AS&SH didn't change the spell duration -- it shortened the combat round ;) I would've gone RAW and ruled that since the werewolf failed its save, it's compelled by a divine power to stay on the floor for the whole minute and suffer the penalty for being prone.  Remember, creatures can still attack from a prone position.

Hold Person:  As you pointed out, the victim is subject to Auto hits and coup de grace.  Not good, but again, it gets a saving throw.  In this case I agree that the 1-hour duration is questionable.  I'd like to see Ghul's and DMPrata's thoughts in this.

 

9/24/2019 8:17 am  #3


Re: Command and hold person

Looks at the history of this spell:

OD&D: 3rd level cleric spell, 6 turns + 1 turn/level, as charm person. Under complete control of caster, saving throw with penalty to save if a limited number of targets
Moldvay Basic: 2nd level cleric spell, 9 turns, paralyzed, saving throw with penalty to save if a limited number of targets
1e AD&D: 2nd level cleric spell, 4 rounds +1 round per level, paralyzed, saving throw with penalty to save if a limited number of targets

It looks like it's within the "range" of what prior editions upon which AS&SH draws from.

In all cases I've used and ruled on Hold Person, the target(s) are immobile for the duration of the spell. In which they are able to be instakilled.

As noted, there are several spells that even a low level party can use to great advantage, never mind one that has 3rd level spell casters.


What? Me worry?
 

9/24/2019 3:13 pm  #4


Re: Command and hold person

Magic empowered by the gods (even bush league gods like the ones in Hyperborea) is powerful magic. Silence, which knocks out spellcasting and even the use of many magic items, is another example.

It might also be worth pointing out that command isn't limited to making the target fall down - it could be used to issue orders like "Flee", "Cower", or "Sleep", any of which would remove the target from combat completely. In all cases I would rule the target had to follow the command for a full minute.


Michael Sipe 1979-2018
Rest in peace, brother.
 

9/25/2019 9:03 am  #5


Re: Command and hold person

I play it RAW, and my NPC spellcasters used Hold Person to great effect against a 7th level Fighter who failed his save...


"Rhialto said sternly: 'Sarsem, your conduct has been less than wise. Need I remind you of this?'
'You need say nothing! In sheer disgust, discharge me from my indenture! The humiliation will be an overwhelming punishment.'
'We are not so cruel,' said Ildefonse."
Jack Vance, Rhialto the Marvellous
 

9/25/2019 10:00 am  #6


Re: Command and hold person

gizmomathboy wrote:

Looks at the history of this spell:

OD&D: 3rd level cleric spell, 6 turns + 1 turn/level, as charm person. Under complete control of caster, saving throw with penalty to save if a limited number of targets
Moldvay Basic: 2nd level cleric spell, 9 turns, paralyzed, saving throw with penalty to save if a limited number of targets

Good catch, Gizmo!  In fact the 6+1/level duration is for the MU version in OD&D.  Clerics get a flat 9 turns, as with Moldvay.  The interesting thing about the OD&D spell is that it doesn't actually specify paralysis.  In fact, a secondary source I use implies that it was essentially charm person with multiple targets; those that failed to save would join and fight for the party for the duration of the spell.


Blackadder23 wrote:

... command isn't limited to making the target fall down - it could be used to issue orders like "Flee", "Cower", or "Sleep", any of which would remove the target from combat completely.

It can indeed be any one-word verb, and BitD we liked to get creative with this.  I knew a guy whose favourite command was "Autodefenestrate!," but it never seemed to work.  Others liked "Defecate!," especially when the target was a typical, savage warrior in plate mail! 
Thanks for the comments.
~ Q-sub

Last edited by Q-sub (9/25/2019 10:16 am)

 

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