The main thing I am kind of iffy about and trying to wrap my head around in the book is the 2 phase combat rounds and how the actions pan out between the phases.  I fear my more modern raised gamers in my group may hate consulting the table to see how to space out actions per phase according to attack rate and movement value.

Spellbinder wrote:

The main thing I am kind of iffy about and trying to wrap my head around in the book is the 2 phase combat rounds and how the actions pan out between the phases.  I fear my more modern raised gamers in my group may hate consulting the table to see how to space out actions per phase according to attack rate and movement value.

Yes, it does take some getting used to, but over time I find it begins to make sense. The one discussion we've had recently is "Should Melee go before Missile?" in each Phase. And we may try flipping those two.

The thing is, you don't need to have a skill list for players to hem and haw over. Just assume they are good at things related to their class and background and use the x-in-6 resolution mechanic. These games' simplicity are the best thing about them. Lots of other games have more elaborate skill systems if that's what you're after.
2-phase combat is unique to the game, almost a trademark. It works so well I'd port that to other OSR systems and not the other way around. But I do use the BX/Moldvay way of organizing the phases, namely Move→Missile→Magic→Mêlée rather than As&sH's Mêlée→Missiles→Magic→Movement. But if you hate your players' spellcasters, than by all means go by the book.

Edit: Also, please try the game as is, without preconceptions about what you think it needs for houserules. You might be surprised, probably pleasantly.

Last edited by Jimm.Iblis (4/25/2019 6:06 pm)

Jimm.Iblis wrote:

The thing is, you don't need to have a skill list for players to hem and haw over. Just assume they are good at things related to their class and background and use the x-in-6 resolution mechanic. These games' simplicity are the best thing about them. Lots of other games have more elaborate skill systems if that's what you're after.

Agree with this, and that's what I was getting at with my point. An example might help: I have one PC who's an Escaped Slave. His character will know proper obeisances, how to appear inconspicuous in a room, how to prepare meals, etc. I judge the x-in-6 chance on a per situation basis, and it is decoupled from class and level. 

Jimm.Iblis wrote:

2-phase combat is unique to the game, almost a trademark. It works so well I'd port that to other OSR systems and not the other way around. But I do use the BX/Moldvay way of organizing the phases, namely Move→Missile→Magic→Mêlée rather than As&sH's Mêlée→Missiles→Magic→Movement. But if you hate your players' spellcasters, than by all means go by the book.

Interesting: we discussed a Missile->Melee->Magic->Move sequence (just based on how we perceive each action is quicker than the one after it).

 

Ynas Midgard wrote:

Uhm, I don't think the table on p244 is meant to show the order of actions in a given phase. The way I read the text is that Phase One actions are ordered from highest to lowest initiative (e.g. if the enemy caster rolls a 6 and the party only rolls a 5, the sorcerer - if stays stationary - gets to cast their spell before the party's frontline gets in melee range). The table wouldn't really make sense otherwise anyways - why would half move + melee attack combos be resolved _before_ half moves sans attack?
(I hope I wasn't misreading your posts.)

No, you weren't misreading my post at least, and I think you're right now: it just seems like a sequence, since they're not alphabetically ordered. Now that I reread the Initiative section on p.244 it's clear that within a Phase the priority of determining action sequence is 1) Highest Initiative Roll, 2) If same Initiative Roll, in order of Dexterity Score, 3) If same Dexterity Sore, Simultaneous. Thanks!

Jimm.Iblis wrote:

Ynas Midgard wrote:

I don't think the table on p244 is meant to show the order of actions in a given phase.

Tell that to my referee.

Like I said: why would move+attack combos go faster than simple moves? : P

Jimm.Iblis wrote:

Ynas Midgard wrote:

Uhm

What's up with that friend?

Oh, that was meant to represent /ɜːm/, a sound I normally use to signal surprise (which I then follow by disagreement and an explanation). I could have typed it as "erm", instead, but "uhm" is visually more pleasing. Just my way of inserting a little conversationalism to written communication.

mordegast wrote:

I’m considering changing the combat matrix to a more B/X style, i.e. 20s are hits even into the negative ACs. I don’t think it will unbalance the game, and it cuts down on having to write all the way to -9 on the character sheet.

HAHAHA! Love it!

Spider - with the exploding dice, I assume you are referring to damage dice?

I also run our combat as per LL or S&W with everyone just taking one big phase in initiative order.  This is not because of any objection to the phases as written, but simply to keep things simple and fast for the players.  We don’t use figures or floorplans to track movement, but just allow things to evolve freeform where the action plays out in our heads (the graphics and special effects can be SO much better there!).  But, I suspect the AS&SH two-phase action would be much more tactical and engaging for tactically-minded players if we were using figures and floorplans.

Re the topic thread, my house rules tend to orbit around avoiding insta-character death (death on failed save, level draining, death spells).  This is not because I think the original rules are bad per se (indeed, I know these have merit and can really affect the style and feel of a game), but simply because they don’t suit our gaming style.

Doctor_Rob wrote:

rhialto wrote:

No, the opposite actually: no skills added, but backgrounds like Escaped Slave, Graverobber, Sky Pilot, etc.

Expanded or more detailed backgrounds would be a nice addition for fleshing-out both PCs and NPCs.

I’ve not really looked into this in much detail. Do folks have preferred lists for this sort of thing?

I use Tales of the Grotesque and Dungeonesque for inspiration: Vol. 1 has a d100 table of such backgrounds.