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1/21/2015 10:16 pm  #101


Re: AS&SH 2nd Print?

Previous winners of No-Prizes are ineligible to compete again in the same calendar year, unless it is a leap year, or if Jupiter is aligned with Venus.


Astonishing Swordsmen & Sorcerers of Hyperborea - A Role-Playing Game of Swords, Sorcery, and Weird Fantasy
 

1/22/2015 10:57 am  #102


Re: AS&SH 2nd Print?

Ghul wrote:

Doctor_Rob wrote:

Sorry if this has been mentioned already, but would there be any possibility of making the new edition (or even the current edition) available as a physical copy - hard or softback - via Drivethru or Lulu?

I mention this because obtainining the current boxed set here in the UK is prohibatively expensive what with postage...

Hello Dr. Rob, and welcome to the board! I'm afraid I have no intention of doing this. But I will be able to get the hardback edition to the UK much cheaper than the current boxed set. I appreciate your interest.
 

 
Ok, thanks Ghul.  I'd certainly be interested in getting the hardback if it can be got to the UK at a cheaper price.

Rob

 

1/22/2015 2:25 pm  #103


Re: AS&SH 2nd Print?

Chainsaw wrote:

Ghul wrote:

The main thing I want to stress is that (in tabletop gaming terms) this is not going to be a new edition. It is a new printing. The rules are the same, but there will be some light expansion -- four new subclasses. There will be some new monsters, some new magic items, etc., but the basic functions and mechanics of the game will remain the same. There will be new layout and some new art.

Understood, understood. I know you're working hard.

Adding a starting town and/or a starting dungeon is an excellent idea; it's something I'm very interested in pursuing. I'm not sure I want to go generic with it. I remain interested in developing Swampgate as a great starting point; peat farming happens to be a big part of their economy! I have an adventure idea for that locale that is inspired by Karl Edward Wagner, but I haven't explored it yet.

Awesome! From a purely personal perspective, detailing Swampgate is better for me, as my campaign is set in and around Khromarium, as you know. Fleshing out a nearby town would be helpful. Plus, cool to hear that Wagner may be helping inspire the related adventure, as he's one of my favorites. I could hazard a guess which about which tale you have in mind, but I already have one No-Prize.

 
This sounds like a stretch goal to me! I'd like to see something like this as a separate book, rather than a tacked-on adventure at the back of the hardcover (a la DCC). It would be much more usable.

...I really need to find some Kane books...


ravengodgames.blogspot.com ~ cartography, writing, game design
Author, Forgotten Fane of the Coiled Goddess
 

1/22/2015 5:50 pm  #104


Re: AS&SH 2nd Print?

joseph wrote:

This sounds like a stretch goal to me! I'd like to see something like this as a separate book, rather than a tacked-on adventure at the back of the hardcover (a la DCC). It would be much more usable.

Interesting idea! I don't have DCC, incidentally, so I wasn't aware they'd done this already.

...I really need to find some Kane books...

Of the longer stories, I like Bloodstone and of the collections Night Winds.
 


Blackadder23: Insanely long villain soliloquy, then "Your action?"
BORGO'S PLAYER: I shoot him in the face
     Thread Starter
 

1/22/2015 7:22 pm  #105


Re: AS&SH 2nd Print?

Thanks for the tip, Wagner is high on my list to buy right now, it's just hard to come by. I'd love to find the collected works.


ravengodgames.blogspot.com ~ cartography, writing, game design
Author, Forgotten Fane of the Coiled Goddess
 

1/22/2015 7:42 pm  #106


Re: AS&SH 2nd Print?

I've just picked up The Conquering Sword of Conan. While I'm only a dozen or so pages into the volume I'm already immensely enjoying my first experiences with Howard's writing. It's easy to see the literary antecedence of Sword & Sorcery adventure within D&D (and AS&SH). Next up is Lovecraft (which I've ordered a volume of) and C.A Smith. 

 

1/22/2015 8:53 pm  #107


Re: AS&SH 2nd Print?

You are in for a treat, my friend. Howard has some great stuff. For myself, I am in the middle of my first read of Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser, also very good tales.


ravengodgames.blogspot.com ~ cartography, writing, game design
Author, Forgotten Fane of the Coiled Goddess
 

1/22/2015 8:55 pm  #108


Re: AS&SH 2nd Print?

So Jeff... we know the new fighter, thief, and magician sub-classes...any hints on that new priest?
;)


ravengodgames.blogspot.com ~ cartography, writing, game design
Author, Forgotten Fane of the Coiled Goddess
 

1/22/2015 9:16 pm  #109


Re: AS&SH 2nd Print?

joseph wrote:

You are in for a treat, my friend. Howard has some great stuff. For myself, I am in the middle of my first read of Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser, also very good tales.

Yes, a treat already. I'll also get to Fafhrd someday too. 
 

 

1/22/2015 9:53 pm  #110


Re: AS&SH 2nd Print?

joseph wrote:

So Jeff... we know the new fighter, thief, and magician sub-classes...any hints on that new priest?
;)

The concept will explore a sort of divination, mind-control, telepathic / telekinetic character type with a monk-like and even bard-like tone; in fact, this priest, much like I suggested for the bard in the "Weird Vibrations" article I wrote for Gygax Magazine #2, will be able to tap into and harness otherworldly vibrations perhaps generated by Azathoth or the like. Except he does it with his mind, entering a transcendental state. At the highest levels, the seer can literally blow your head off, like in Scanners. Well, that is the concept I've had in mind. But I must mention -- once I start typing and developing the idea, things can change quickly, but I've been thinking about this for a long time, and I feel pretty good about it conceptually.
 


Astonishing Swordsmen & Sorcerers of Hyperborea - A Role-Playing Game of Swords, Sorcery, and Weird Fantasy
 

1/22/2015 10:34 pm  #111


Re: AS&SH 2nd Print?

Rastus_Burne wrote:

joseph wrote:

You are in for a treat, my friend. Howard has some great stuff. For myself, I am in the middle of my first read of Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser, also very good tales.

Yes, a treat already. I'll also get to Fafhrd someday too. 
 

 
I absolutely love Leiber's Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser tales. My personal take on Hyperborea would be straight from those pages.

 

1/23/2015 1:39 am  #112


Re: AS&SH 2nd Print?

Which Wagner story, do you think? I'd hazard a guess...Bloodstone.

 

1/23/2015 6:36 am  #113


Re: AS&SH 2nd Print?

famouswolf wrote:

Which Wagner story, do you think? I'd hazard a guess...Bloodstone.

My guess as well!


Blackadder23: Insanely long villain soliloquy, then "Your action?"
BORGO'S PLAYER: I shoot him in the face
     Thread Starter
 

1/23/2015 9:02 am  #114


Re: AS&SH 2nd Print?

Ghul wrote:

joseph wrote:

So Jeff... we know the new fighter, thief, and magician sub-classes...any hints on that new priest?
;)

The concept will explore a sort of divination, mind-control, telepathic / telekinetic character type with a monk-like and even bard-like tone; in fact, this priest, much like I suggested for the bard in the "Weird Vibrations" article I wrote for Gygax Magazine #2, will be able to tap into and harness otherworldly vibrations perhaps generated by Azathoth or the like. Except he does it with his mind, entering a transcendental state. At the highest levels, the seer can literally blow your head off, like in Scanners. Well, that is the concept I've had in mind. But I must mention -- once I start typing and developing the idea, things can change quickly, but I've been thinking about this for a long time, and I feel pretty good about it conceptually.
 

Whoa, that sounds really interesting and outside the box. Kind of "psionics without psionics". Thanks for the preview Ghul!


ravengodgames.blogspot.com ~ cartography, writing, game design
Author, Forgotten Fane of the Coiled Goddess
 

1/23/2015 10:01 am  #115


Re: AS&SH 2nd Print?

Any possibility of slipping in something on magic and corruption...?  Basically, something streight forwards to capture the consequences of dabbling in socrery etc.  (I saw discussion on another thread about this - so sorry for cross-posting).

I mention this because it was highlighted as an issue in the (overall, very positive) review of the game on RPG.net.  Other similar games attempt to deal with this (e.g. Crypts and Things) and maybe ASSH shoud include something as well.  A second printing would be a good opportunity to address this.

 

1/23/2015 10:30 am  #116


Re: AS&SH 2nd Print?

Doctor_Rob wrote:

Any possibility of slipping in something on magic and corruption...?  Basically, something streight forwards to capture the consequences of dabbling in socrery etc.  (I saw discussion on another thread about this - so sorry for cross-posting).

I mention this because it was highlighted as an issue in the (overall, very positive) review of the game on RPG.net.  Other similar games attempt to deal with this (e.g. Crypts and Things) and maybe ASSH shoud include something as well.  A second printing would be a good opportunity to address this.

Perhaps as an optional system, like what's in Advanced Combat?

I would potentially be interested in a totally optional system where magicians could gamble for increased power on a case-by-case basis, but not in a system where you're basically just layering on new penalties for normal magic use that gradually or eventually disfigure, weaken or destroy the caster. The latter just doesn't seem fun to me. Everyone's different, of course.

I could see this: Maybe the situation's hopeless and your group's almost dead, so you invoke dread demons or evil gods for a one-time boost to your magic to save the day, but in doing so, you have a high risk of something bad happening, like unflattering physical changes, attribute loss, madness or even death. The severity would vary with the strength of the boost, naturally. The problem even with the "gamble" dynamic is that regular use may begin to feel obligatory, so using the PC's powers results in eventual self-destruction, which, again, I'm not crazy about personally.

So, I don't know. I get the literary basis of the idea, but I'm just not sure how I would blend it with a game very well because I don't want to wind up obviously (or effectively) gimping the magic users.

I'm sure Jeff has his own thoughts though!


Blackadder23: Insanely long villain soliloquy, then "Your action?"
BORGO'S PLAYER: I shoot him in the face
     Thread Starter
 

1/23/2015 11:58 am  #117


Re: AS&SH 2nd Print?

Chainsaw wrote:

I could see this: Maybe the situation's hopeless and your group's almost dead, so you invoke dread demons or evil gods for a one-time boost to your magic to save the day, but in doing so, you have a high risk of something bad happening, like unflattering physical changes, attribute loss, madness or even death. The severity would vary with the strength of the boost, naturally. The problem even with the "gamble" dynamic is that regular use may begin to feel mandatory and the player then feels like using the PC's powers results in eventual self-destruction, which, again, I'm not crazy about personally.

So, I don't know. I get the literary basis of the idea, I'm just not sure how to blend it with a game very well.

I see the dilemma - magic using PCs may feel the rules are against them if, over time, their character slowly disintigrates and dies. 

However, a trope of the genre is that sorcery is inherently corrupting and wrong, and I think this needs to be reflected in the game.  That is, if a player chooses to be a sorcery-using character, they need to take-on the down-side of this, rather than only getting the deficit in extremis.  For example, in the 3.5 corruption rules, the potential to embrace the corruption means the sorcerer manifests physical effects of the corruption but does not suffer the effects of stat loss (until the stat hits zero and they become a wraith or something).  One could make a case that when effects are fully manifested, the sorcerer becomes some sort of lich-like immortal - a centuries-old wizard, shunned and feared by society etc...

Maybe some sort of boxed-out optional rule...?

 

1/23/2015 12:38 pm  #118


Re: AS&SH 2nd Print?

I do like the direction of this discussion, because the trope is so prevalent in the source material. Crypts and Things is a nice little game that does a pretty good job of capturing the danger of sorcery through its use of white/gray/black magic.

I'm not sure something like this would need to be included in the rule book, though, as it may force changes to the overall magic system. It would make a lovely little freebie for the new website though...

On another topic, how do you guys feel about introducing a "sanity" rule? It's something I have thought about, but never followed up on.


ravengodgames.blogspot.com ~ cartography, writing, game design
Author, Forgotten Fane of the Coiled Goddess
 

1/23/2015 1:26 pm  #119


Re: AS&SH 2nd Print?

Personally, I don't see any compelling reason to accept the "conventional wisdom" that sanity loss and corruption of sorcerers are a necessary part of the sword & sorcery genre.  Apart from a couple of times when he was specifically under a spell, I don't recall Conan ever being paralyzed with fear - or even particularly shaken - by any of the outre horrors he encountered.  He attacked or retreated as prudence dictated (unless he was cornered, in which case he just attacked).  Why should PC adventurers be any less tough-minded than he was?

As for corruption - certainly many sorcerers in the literature are corrupt, make deals with demons, etc.  But where is it written that this is a necessary condition for the practice of magic in the S&S genre?  The answer, of course, is that it's written in Crypts and Things, Mongoose Conan, (*gag*) 3.5... not the actual literature.  There is a powerful, non-corrupt, benevolent magic-user in the very first Conan story: Epimetreus the Sage.  He's still fighting evil from beyond the grave, for Mitra's sake!  Nor do the witch and priest of Asura in The Hour of the Dragon seem physically grotesque or morally evil.  Why can't PCs follow their examples rather than be forced by mechanics into a cookie-cutter "corrupt sorcerer" mold?  Whether or not "corruption" exists in a particular character can be handled through alignment and role-playing.

All of which is to say, I support Jeff's decision not to include these rules. http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/wink.png


Michael Sipe 1979-2018
Rest in peace, brother.
 

1/23/2015 2:42 pm  #120


Re: AS&SH 2nd Print?

Blackadder23 wrote:

Personally, I don't see any compelling reason to accept the "conventional wisdom" that sanity loss and corruption of sorcerers are a necessary part of the sword & sorcery genre.  Apart from a couple of times when he was specifically under a spell, I don't recall Conan ever being paralyzed with fear - or even particularly shaken - by any of the outre horrors he encountered.  He attacked or retreated as prudence dictated (unless he was cornered, in which case he just attacked).  Why should PC adventurers be any less tough-minded than he was?

As for corruption - certainly many sorcerers in the literature are corrupt, make deals with demons, etc.  But where is it written that this is a necessary condition for the practice of magic in the S&S genre?  The answer, of course, is that it's written in Crypts and Things, Mongoose Conan, (*gag*) 3.5... not the actual literature.  There is a powerful, non-corrupt, benevolent magic-user in the very first Conan story: Epimetreus the Sage.  He's still fighting evil from beyond the grave, for Mitra's sake!  Nor do the witch and priest of Asura in The Hour of the Dragon seem physically grotesque or morally evil.  Why can't PCs follow their examples rather than be forced by mechanics into a cookie-cutter "corrupt sorcerer" mold?  Whether or not "corruption" exists in a particular character can be handled through alignment and role-playing.

All of which is to say, I support Jeff's decision not to include these rules. http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/wink.png

I am pretty much with BA23 on this one. I don't think CoC-style SAN rules work at all well for S&S or even D&D-type games. Leave the crazies and soul-annihilating fear to the NPCs! The characters are adventurers. Insane terrors from beyond the nighted gulfs are their bread and butter because they might have diamonds in their space gizzards. And buddy, space-gizzard diamonds are what I'm in it for.

That is, AS&SH characters are badasses. Have you seen the art in the book? Do you think that hot shaman is going to be *scared* of a colour out of space or a tentacular horror? She's going to be pissed off! And hot.

What we have instead is the ability to give certain monsters a fear spell-like power. That's totally appropriate, and resisting it is based on how much of a badass the character is--and luck. Which is all to the S&S good, as far as I'm concerned.

As for corruption and magic--again, they're already corrupt! Magicians see through the eyes of animals! Witches dance only in order to mess you the hell up! Necromancers are necromancers! Shamans don't even want to be human, man. These people are deranged! If one of them had the office next to yours, you would freak out. I think it's much more in keeping with S&S to make magic *items* corrupting--or rather, to make the use of many magic items have side effects that one has to deal with if one wants the power of the item. Similarly, you can base any scenario you want around some powerful NPC or monster offering corrupting power to PCs or to NPCs and let the consequences shake out in adventure. Daemons offering the mayor free succubus sex in exchange for his keeping the goo portal open by tossing in the occasional virgin? That's just the natural rhythm of life right there. As is stopping him with extreme violence and taking his mayor stuff.

In conclusion, adventurers are already deranged, corrupt skeezeballs. It's a feature, not a bug.

 

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