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10/15/2018 7:45 pm  #21


Re: Player introduction package

ArjenL wrote:

It is meant as a testing-the-water session where we check out if there is enough interest to make it a regular thing. I will use the excellent Waifs of Boreas file to generate some pre-gens (or even allow generation of pre-gens on the fly for late comers and spontaneous drop-ins). 

As I know some will want to generate their characters themselves and we have now 1 book among us I was looking for a short hand description organised table of character classes and their 1st level stats (short description,prereqs, hd, armor/weapon/etc allowed, saves, xp to 2nd level, special abilities at 1st level etc.) so players can take those choices and jot them down on the sheet to be filled out with details from the book later. 

I started making that myself and will post that here if that's appreciated.

Not sure where it lives in the 2nd edition hardback, but the races description list on pg 14 and the classes description list on pg 27 of the 1st edition book basically tell a player all they need to know.
 

Last edited by Iron Ranger (10/15/2018 7:47 pm)


3d6 straight.
 

10/15/2018 7:51 pm  #22


Re: Player introduction package

achiriaco wrote:

Chainsaw wrote:

Referees should do whatever they think makes sense based on their own experience, the experience of their players and the situation, in my opinion. Based on what the OP wrote, I'd personally go with pregens, but I can see how others wouldn't. I apologize if it seemed that I was giving some sort of universal rule on the matter because of my own preferences.

No need to apologize Chainsaw. OP was looking for help on player aids for creation. Not sure why this morphed into pre-gen convo?

I think when there wasn't a readily available "Player introduction package," I offered an alternative that had worked well for me in a convention setting. /shrug

No big deal! 

Iron Ranger wrote:

Not sure where it lives in the 2nd edition hardback, but the races description list on pg 14 and the classes description list on pg 27 of the 1st edition book basically tell a player all they need to know.

Page 100-111 has Races, Physique, Alignment and Background (which includes Religion).


Blackadder23: Insanely long villain soliloquy, then "Your action?"
BORGO'S PLAYER: I shoot him in the face
 

10/15/2018 7:58 pm  #23


Re: Player introduction package

Chainsaw wrote:

If you're playing with a group that you expect to become regulars, then sure, spend some time rolling up the PCs. I agree - that is super fun! What was described in the OP sounded more like a demonstration to me, so I leaned toward getting to the action more quickly in that case.

I've never considered doing a char gen at a con or a demo. As a player I inwardly groan if char gen is required at a con game. I would much rather pick and go. That being said maybe I'm in the minority. I never considered that some players would connect better with their own creation. It may be worth trying.


“How can I wear the harness of toil
And sweat at the daily round,
While in my soul forever
The drums of Pictdom sound?” 
 

10/15/2018 8:17 pm  #24


Re: Player introduction package

mabon5127 wrote:

Chainsaw wrote:

If you're playing with a group that you expect to become regulars, then sure, spend some time rolling up the PCs. I agree - that is super fun! What was described in the OP sounded more like a demonstration to me, so I leaned toward getting to the action more quickly in that case.

I've never considered doing a char gen at a con or a demo. As a player I inwardly groan if char gen is required at a con game. I would much rather pick and go. That being said maybe I'm in the minority. I never considered that some players would connect better with their own creation. It may be worth trying.

One of my great friends and an amazing referee, austinjimm, always insists on players rolling up PCs in his convention games, but he also runs OD&D, which has fewer options, and has a one pager that walks step by step through the process. It takes all of five minutes, even at high-levels.

What I found challenging with rolling up PCs in my AS&SH convention game was that people spent a long time doing it (even with some help), longer than I expected or had planned on. So, I think it just depends on setting expectations (in the event description) and building in time to do it (assume 30 minutes minimum). Maybe it's worth trying again, now that I've run more games and have a better sense of how to make a one-pager to help speed things up. Mostly people are spending time comparing options (classes vs stats, spells, weapons, armor, etc) and asking where to find things to help make those decisions.


Blackadder23: Insanely long villain soliloquy, then "Your action?"
BORGO'S PLAYER: I shoot him in the face
 

10/15/2018 8:35 pm  #25


Re: Player introduction package

mabon5127 wrote:

Chainsaw wrote:

If you're playing with a group that you expect to become regulars, then sure, spend some time rolling up the PCs. I agree - that is super fun! What was described in the OP sounded more like a demonstration to me, so I leaned toward getting to the action more quickly in that case.

I've never considered doing a char gen at a con or a demo. As a player I inwardly groan if char gen is required at a con game. I would much rather pick and go. That being said maybe I'm in the minority. I never considered that some players would connect better with their own creation. It may be worth trying.

I really appreciate that you guys are giving it a second think...
I've been playing in Mike Mornard's Magic users with knives campaign at gary con for years. I loved that character I rolled up the first time and brought it back every year. (sadly, death @ GCX)  I'm not the only one at the table doing this. 
 


3d6 straight.
 

10/15/2018 8:43 pm  #26


Re: Player introduction package

Iron Ranger wrote:

mabon5127 wrote:

Chainsaw wrote:

If you're playing with a group that you expect to become regulars, then sure, spend some time rolling up the PCs. I agree - that is super fun! What was described in the OP sounded more like a demonstration to me, so I leaned toward getting to the action more quickly in that case.

I've never considered doing a char gen at a con or a demo. As a player I inwardly groan if char gen is required at a con game. I would much rather pick and go. That being said maybe I'm in the minority. I never considered that some players would connect better with their own creation. It may be worth trying.

I really appreciate that you guys are giving it a second think...

I've been playing in Mike Mornard's Magic users with knives campaign at gary con for years. I loved that character I rolled up the first time and brought it back every year. (sadly, death @ GCX)  I'm not the only one at the table doing this.

Agreed! I have fond memories of some PCs I rolled up in austijimm's games (and in Mythmere's games too).

We did "half-gens" in my Foolsgrave living dungeon in 2017, where the players chose a sheet that already had the class of their choice (and stats, saves, etc), but spent a few minutes rolling money and personalizing equipment (and spells). People seemed to enjoy it and the "choose a class" method seemed to cut out the most time-consuming piece of the process (the inclination to optimize attributes against 20 classes they didn't necessarily know well) while still providing a high-degree of customization (choosing class, gear, name, etc).

Oh yeah, each half-gen also came with a one-page summary from the book on all the class's special abilities, so people didn't need to waste time tranferring, say, all the beserker abilities from the PM to their sheet.


Blackadder23: Insanely long villain soliloquy, then "Your action?"
BORGO'S PLAYER: I shoot him in the face
 

10/15/2018 8:48 pm  #27


Re: Player introduction package

Chainsaw wrote:

Iron Ranger wrote:

mabon5127 wrote:


I've never considered doing a char gen at a con or a demo. As a player I inwardly groan if char gen is required at a con game. I would much rather pick and go. That being said maybe I'm in the minority. I never considered that some players would connect better with their own creation. It may be worth trying.

I really appreciate that you guys are giving it a second think...

I've been playing in Mike Mornard's Magic users with knives campaign at gary con for years. I loved that character I rolled up the first time and brought it back every year. (sadly, death @ GCX)  I'm not the only one at the table doing this.

Agreed! I have fond memories of some PCs I rolled up in austijimm's games (and in Mythmere's games too).

We did "half-gens" in my Foolsgrave living dungeon in 2017, where the players chose a sheet that already had the class of their choice (and stats, saves, etc), but spent a few minutes rolling money and personalizing equipment (and spells). People seemed to enjoy it and the "choose a class" method seemed to cut out the most time-consuming piece of the process (the inclination to optimize attributes against 20 classes they didn't necessarily know well) while still providing a high-degree of customization (choosing class, gear, name, etc).

I like the idea of the half-gen speeding up the choice thing. That would be a lot of work getting the base sheets done but then easy to manage thereafter.


“How can I wear the harness of toil
And sweat at the daily round,
While in my soul forever
The drums of Pictdom sound?” 
 

10/15/2018 9:26 pm  #28


Re: Player introduction package

My stat rolling method of choice (and what I want to introduce in my game is) 4d6, drop lowest, down the line, swap 1 score if that will let you qualify for a specific class. Most players I play with have only done point buy and or stat array and part of what I want to introduce (together with the other old school elements of AS&SH) is the departure of character builds. Roll and interpret what you rolled; have scores in places because you roliled them, not because you chose them or dumped that stat. I want that character creation part of the game.

I know from experience how a character creation session can be tedious when we share one copy of the book (I'm sure there will be more if the campaign takes off). Also in the case of someone needing to make a new character mid-session being able to do the basics by themselves and fill in the details at the end (especially when I use my copy to run the game)

I'll create what I had in mind and post it here so you'll know what I wanted when I started the thread (not to say that there wasn't a lot of helpful info from all of you)

     Thread Starter
 

10/15/2018 9:28 pm  #29


Re: Player introduction package

ArjenL wrote:

I'll create what I had in mind and post it here so you'll know what I wanted when I started the thread (not to say that there wasn't a lot of helpful info from all of you)

Sounds great, love to see it! Might help me too.


Blackadder23: Insanely long villain soliloquy, then "Your action?"
BORGO'S PLAYER: I shoot him in the face
 

10/15/2018 9:51 pm  #30


Re: Player introduction package

ArjenL wrote:

My. Roll and interpret what you rolled; have scores in places because you roliled them, not because you chose them or dumped that stat. 

YES! This is why I love 3d6 straight!
 


3d6 straight.
 

10/15/2018 11:47 pm  #31


Re: Player introduction package

Iron Ranger wrote:

We'll just have to disagree on this...
I just can't fully connect with a pre-gen  ---  It's like choosing Green for a game of Sorry.

My apologies, I was being unclear. If a player wants to make a character- awesome! I pretty much expect it from veteran players. I was trying to make a point that I handle character creation it was poorly stated.

I guess I should clarify why my tabletop time is so precious. I run a game once a month and every session, I am under the gun to deliver a complete adventure in 4-6 hours with pacing that's roughly equivalent to say, Raiders of the Lost Ark or The Mummy. To that end, anything related to character creation, buying stuff, hiring henchmen, downtime, bookkeeping, etc is resolved online in between games.   

 

10/16/2018 9:26 am  #32


Re: Player introduction package

Brock Savage wrote:

Iron Ranger wrote:

We'll just have to disagree on this...
I just can't fully connect with a pre-gen  ---  It's like choosing Green for a game of Sorry.

My apologies, I was being unclear. If a player wants to make a character- awesome! I pretty much expect it from veteran players. I was trying to make a point that I handle character creation it was poorly stated.

I guess I should clarify why my tabletop time is so precious. I run a game once a month and every session, I am under the gun to deliver a complete adventure in 4-6 hours with pacing that's roughly equivalent to say, Raiders of the Lost Ark or The Mummy. To that end, anything related to character creation, buying stuff, hiring henchmen, downtime, bookkeeping, etc is resolved online in between games.   

Brock, I totally get it! I'm just super duper spoiled with 2 games a week. And I've gotten very greedy with playing out all that downtime stuff.


3d6 straight.
 

10/16/2018 1:02 pm  #33


Re: Player introduction package

Iron Ranger wrote:

Brock Savage wrote:

Iron Ranger wrote:

We'll just have to disagree on this...
I just can't fully connect with a pre-gen  ---  It's like choosing Green for a game of Sorry.

My apologies, I was being unclear. If a player wants to make a character- awesome! I pretty much expect it from veteran players. I was trying to make a point that I handle character creation it was poorly stated.

I guess I should clarify why my tabletop time is so precious. I run a game once a month and every session, I am under the gun to deliver a complete adventure in 4-6 hours with pacing that's roughly equivalent to say, Raiders of the Lost Ark or The Mummy. To that end, anything related to character creation, buying stuff, hiring henchmen, downtime, bookkeeping, etc is resolved online in between games.   

Brock, I totally get it! I'm just super duper spoiled with 2 games a week. And I've gotten very greedy with playing out all that downtime stuff.

Do you run both or get to play in one?  I have players ask some questions between sessions if the answer  involves a long discussion or if it something the player wishes to keep character confidential.  I like the social aspects of playing out some mundane things it offers some comic relief in an otherwise very serious game environment.


“How can I wear the harness of toil
And sweat at the daily round,
While in my soul forever
The drums of Pictdom sound?” 
 

10/16/2018 2:50 pm  #34


Re: Player introduction package

mabon5127 wrote:

Iron Ranger wrote:

Brock Savage wrote:


My apologies, I was being unclear. If a player wants to make a character- awesome! I pretty much expect it from veteran players. I was trying to make a point that I handle character creation it was poorly stated.

I guess I should clarify why my tabletop time is so precious. I run a game once a month and every session, I am under the gun to deliver a complete adventure in 4-6 hours with pacing that's roughly equivalent to say, Raiders of the Lost Ark or The Mummy. To that end, anything related to character creation, buying stuff, hiring henchmen, downtime, bookkeeping, etc is resolved online in between games.   

Brock, I totally get it! I'm just super duper spoiled with 2 games a week. And I've gotten very greedy with playing out all that downtime stuff.

Do you run both or get to play in one?  I have players ask some questions between sessions if the answer  involves a long discussion or if it something the player wishes to keep character confidential.  I like the social aspects of playing out some mundane things it offers some comic relief in an otherwise very serious game environment.

I run one and play in the other. I take players aside for super secret stuff, keeps the table intrigue high. Other DM does the same.

We love the social gatherings as much as the games. We can spend half the night recalculating Encumbrance around the table. Or stopping the game down to look up a rule. Or rolling up a new character(s). Everybody's cool and into it. We have the same great fun time. It's all Playing the game to us. 
 


3d6 straight.
 

10/16/2018 11:27 pm  #35


Re: Player introduction package

Below is what I will use at the character creation session. It's crude (with typo's) and doesn't make sense without the book and doesn't show abilities beyond 1st level. I'll check tomorrow whether the format works on this site as I'm going to bed now . Hope this is of use for you.

ETA> I deleted the wall of text and replaced it with this hyperlink: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1pBq_SVMmcavh5CVkjAA6GCC5qAKLFtZF/view

Last edited by ArjenL (10/17/2018 7:38 am)

     Thread Starter
 

10/17/2018 7:47 am  #36


Re: Player introduction package

Ahhh, I see. Kind of a handy quick overview of the classes. I can see how this helps address the excess time people can spend choosing their class. In my convention game where we rolled from scratch, I handed out PMs and people spent lots of time browsing the classes, probably reading way more detail about each one than they needed. It took forever, hehe. I may try your method next March. Thanks for sharing!


Blackadder23: Insanely long villain soliloquy, then "Your action?"
BORGO'S PLAYER: I shoot him in the face
 

10/17/2018 9:38 am  #37


Re: Player introduction package

That's a pretty good summary of the classes at 1st level.

I guess the next "summary" would be at the various "breakpoints" where the classes get various upgrades. That might be a lot of info still. Maybe half a page per class...maybe.

I can't speak about what to do at conventions since I have run any rpg events at one. I think I would be more inclined to hand out pregens, especially for a higher level party. Although as Chainsaw did with Foolsgrave, I think letting the player roll up equipment and stuff might be ok.

I'm more of the "let's get to the play of things" in a convention and not so much into character generation.


What? Me worry?
 

10/17/2018 9:54 am  #38


Re: Player introduction package

 I am definitely a pre-gen guy but if I were to try a char gen at a game I think I would leave mechanics out completely from the decision making process.  Play a character based on the coolness of the name and description.  Choosing between 30 classes based on abilities and chances of success at various levels with a new rpg'er would be scary for them and me!!

From experience I have encountered players that love mechanics and would be shut down for an hour given the number of variable to sort through.

Let them pick by what sounds cool roll stats (adjust to minimums), pick a name, buy some stuff, go reaving.

 


“How can I wear the harness of toil
And sweat at the daily round,
While in my soul forever
The drums of Pictdom sound?” 
 

10/17/2018 10:06 am  #39


Re: Player introduction package

mabon5127 wrote:

Let them pick by what sounds cool roll stats (adjust to minimums), pick a name, buy some stuff, go reaving.

Pick a class, roll in order, adjust any scores to minimums if necessary seems like a nice compromise of agency and speed.

1. Quick one page summary of all classes (aided by handout)
2. Pick, roll, adjust to minimums
3. Receive my class-specific one-pager with all the ability details (no wasted time transferring ability info from the PM to a character sheet)
4. Assign attribute modifications, saves (aided by handout)
5. Add gear (some sort of starter pack by class, perhaps modified to allow for weapon/armor choice)

/shrug

I may try this next time!


Blackadder23: Insanely long villain soliloquy, then "Your action?"
BORGO'S PLAYER: I shoot him in the face
 

10/17/2018 1:21 pm  #40


Re: Player introduction package

There is a great article on player introductions that is part of a series on campaign organization at Welsh Piper : "Writing Your Player's Guide"
Admittedly the info is for home campaigns, but as I've forced myself to learn, less is more. Creating a player's guide and trying to stick to the player's perspectives has been a necessary exercise in restraint.


"Role-playing isn't storytelling. If the dungeon master is directing it, it's not a game."  ~ Gary Gygax
 

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