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Rules Discussion » Escaping "engaged in melee" as a spellcaster » 4/26/2018 2:58 pm

nemomeme
Replies: 41

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Chandra is there because if movement is simultaneous in AS&SH then she's almost directly in the path between Anfar and Bedic if Bedic gets to move to the door even having lost initiative. And even if she's not directly in the path, she's close enough to potentially be engaging Anfar in melee whether or not she gets to strike at him this round. If AS&SH worked like B/X or ACKs, etc. in this regard.

Rules Discussion » Escaping "engaged in melee" as a spellcaster » 4/26/2018 1:16 pm

nemomeme
Replies: 41

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If movement is simultaneous then Anfar is charging almost directly though Chandra, perhaps clipping her on her right side; I thought the RAW was that was a situation where Anfar would now be engaged in melee with Chandra, similar to Moldvay Basic in that regard and would not even be able to reach Bedic. But it sounds like that's not the case for reasons I'm still not clear on. I wasn't looking to add AoO.

Ghul wrote:

- Chandra attacks Anfar (Anfar loses DX bonus to AC, if applicable, or -1 if no bonus applies).

Ghul wrote:

Chandra does not get to attack because she lost initiative.

It wasn't a part of my original query, but these two statements seem contradictory to me.

Ghul wrote:

If you find the flow of movement during the sequence to be cumbersome to your play-style, then have each actor go in order of initiative, in which case Anfar attacks Bedric before Bedric does anything. It's fine!

I think that might be a good idea for me. Thanks for your help and patience.

Rules Discussion » Escaping "engaged in melee" as a spellcaster » 4/26/2018 9:59 am

nemomeme
Replies: 41

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Okay, so this is neither of the two answers I might have anticipated.

Anfar won initiative and has achieved a straight line charge, but Bedic is also at the door at the moment/point Anfar reaches him? And he also didn't become engaged with Chandra on his path from his starting position to the door? Is that peculiar to charges and/or because he won initiative?

Thank you for your response.

Rules Discussion » Escaping "engaged in melee" as a spellcaster » 4/25/2018 10:30 pm

nemomeme
Replies: 41

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Hi Ghul! 

Really looking forward to my Anthropophagi and Beasts!

Speaking of things starting with A and B, Anfar and Bedic are two typical unarmored and unencumbered human-type folk in this example (MV 40'). Anfar is charging, Bedic is moving.

Rules Discussion » Escaping "engaged in melee" as a spellcaster » 4/22/2018 8:16 pm

nemomeme
Replies: 41

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I'll assume I'm not making myself clear rather than that you're just messing with me, Dwindle. http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/confused.png


I've played every version of D&D from OD&D to 5E along with Dungeon Crawl Classics, Lamentations of the Flame PrincessBeyond the Wall, Into The Odd, Swords & Wizardry, Labyrinth Lord & others. None of them have two-phase combat & it's clear to me for each of those rule sets how this situation would work. All of them solve this conundrum; I'm not concerned with Bedic's well-being. If winning initiative means Anfar gets to move entirely before Bedic then that's great. Absent any help, that's probably how I'm going to run it.

really like AS&SH and wanted to try it RAW for at least five sessions before abandoning this element for something more familiar.

Rules Discussion » Escaping "engaged in melee" as a spellcaster » 4/22/2018 4:54 pm

nemomeme
Replies: 41

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C and B are on the same side and C is not moving. Maybe the only thing she said is "If anyone tries to run by me I will engage them in melee and try to hit them." 

For this example if movement is truly simultaneous A charging directly at B will be running due south and will be engaged with C as she is close enough to engage/stop him. But if movement is not exactly simultaneous, then A winning initiative will put him next to B and they'll both be near the brazier at the conclusion of A's charge. When you're using minis and maps, this difference is critical. Do people playing ASSH with maps and minis using the RAW have everyone lift up their minis simultaneously irrespective of initiative and starting moving them around the map in concert? If that's the RAW case, that's cool but I've never heard of anything like this & it strikes me as unusual.

It's fine if the answer is "The RAW don't inform you on this point and aren't meant to. Decide how you want to run it for your game." I'll make a decision and then stick with it for consistency (probably that movement is "phased by initiative" for cases like this). Absent some official clarification I'm just gathering opinions. Thank you for yours.

Rules Discussion » Escaping "engaged in melee" as a spellcaster » 4/22/2018 11:40 am

nemomeme
Replies: 41

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No opinions on how people run this? We're going to try to play AS&SH again this coming weekend and would really welcome opinions from anyone that's trying to go the RAW two-phase combat round route.

Rules Discussion » Escaping "engaged in melee" as a spellcaster » 4/09/2018 9:16 pm

nemomeme
Replies: 41

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Okay, here's the map and wrinkle:
http://i68.tinypic.com/2dbmlir.jpg

Bedic, standing next to a brazier and headed to his left toward the door, now has an ally, Chandra, who is standing still and on her guard. Even if Anfar beats Bedic on initiative, Chandra is in the path of Anfar's charge towards Bedic if movement is either simultaneous or "more-or-less simultaneous". 

If you resolve the movement of those who win initiative first, Anfar has a clear path towards Bedic. In my initial sans-Chandra example, given more-or-less simultaneous movement, Anfar is striking at Bedic near the door rather than the brazier.

Rules Discussion » Escaping "engaged in melee" as a spellcaster » 4/09/2018 8:19 pm

nemomeme
Replies: 41

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Okay, I thought I had it but there's a big difference between "more-or-less" and |"not" simultaneous with a two-phase round when you're playing with minis. I'll try to complete the example with a map and include a wrinkle that demonstrates why one might need to know how simultaneous movement is after initiative is rolled. At this point, I think all I can do is ask how other people would tend to rule for my example and then make up my own mind.

Again, I've been running role-playing games for almost forty years. I've been more into freeform and rule-light games in the last decade & am drifting towards B/X for my  dungeon-style gaming because it's pretty light.

AS&SH seems to lean into a regimented AD&D style, (especially in its advanced combat options), relative to most games I play these days. At this point I'm just trying to gather data on how other people are handling this unusual two-phase innovation to decide how I want to run it.

Whether I'm running rules-light, rules-medium or rules-heavy, consistency is important for me and for a lot of people I play with. I'm okay with being expedient-but-fair on a case-by-case basis but for something as basic as the combat sequence I'd venture most players would appreciate learning the design intent.

I really appreciate y'all sticking with me on this & I think I know how most people would handle this case for AS&SH (totally simultaneous movement and Bedic is no longer next to the brazier when Anfar strikes but near the door) which is why the wrinkle I want to add has become important. More later.

Rules Discussion » Escaping "engaged in melee" as a spellcaster » 4/08/2018 10:00 pm

nemomeme
Replies: 41

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Thanks for the feedback, Jimm.Iblis & thanks for your shambling boar things! I'm sure at least a couple more of your monsters will find their way to my table.  I hear you on the rule-and-move-on thing. As seldom as I get to play dungeoneering games, that is certainly my preferred way to spend my precious weekend time. Even after running games for forty years, that's hard for me to do at this current table with a new system. I'm trying!  Astonishing is great, I agree!

DMPrata, thanks for the breakdown. All your assumptions about my example were correct. I'm getting closer, I think, to understanding the intent of the rules. One more wrinkle. Let's say the door was not at a right angle, but a bit towards Anfar. If Anfar wins initiative and charges Bedic, are they where Bedic stands/stood at the beginning of the round? Or are they both at the door, but Anfar is attempting to strike Bedic before Bedic can reach for the door handle?

The way you phrased your second-to-last sentence suggests Bedic is somewhere between his starting position and the door when Anfar's charge reaches him rather than either at the brazier or the door.

If Anfar wins initiative and engages Bedic before he reaches the door, would you rule that he can sort of shift his intent towards a lateral "backpedalling" and still reach the door, having faced Anfar's charge?

Rules Discussion » Escaping "engaged in melee" as a spellcaster » 4/01/2018 6:44 pm

nemomeme
Replies: 41

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We had our third AS&SH session yesterday. The players are in the Dwellers of the Forbidden City proper & not just headed toward it. We had fun but more than a half-an-hour was again spent discussing the two-phase combat with some frustration. I think we mostly have it down now, but I'm back again to request some help/clarity.

Why is Movement listed fourth in the Basic Combat Sequence on p244? Is that really operative/important? Is the explication "Advance" important/exclusive on p245? More precisely, if a PC says they want to withdraw (backpedal) p254, given that they could still melee, does that kind of movement take place at the same time as "Melee" in the Basic Combat Sequence? And therefore withdraw takes place during "Melee" so if you win initiative you get to withdraw before your opponent gets to try to hit you? Or do you only start to move during "Movement" and therefore they're going to attempt to strike you before you start to move away whether or not you win initiative?

Here's another case. Let's say an unarmored man, Anfar is forty feet away from their opponent, Bedic. Anfar says he's going to charge Bedic. Bedic, standing near a brazier, says he's going to Move laterally towards a door. Maybe he want to open it or something. In any case, he's not intending to melee. Anfar wins initiative. Has he charged Bedic who is still standing near the brazier because "Movement" (part 4 of the BCS) hasn't occurred yet? Or, given that this strike is occurring towards the end of Phase 1, are they both now near the door? What if Bedic wins initiative? Is the situation different or might they still both be positioned near the brazier because "Melee" is listed before "Movement" and Bedic is simply moving and not fighting?

I have a third scenario that occurred but that's probably enough for now.

Hmmm... I'm seeing now that regardless I did not give the boar-men their [i]first str

Adventures » Dwellers of the Forbidden City » 2/21/2018 9:33 pm

nemomeme
Replies: 10

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I like the idea of trying to make the city's history interesting to explore, Jimm.Iblis, thanks. I'm never sure what the players are going to be into in any given session (they barely explored a Angkor Wat-style site mini-dungeon I created for the journey to I1 & missed almost all the treasure as a result), but I'll give it a try. There's one local Lemurian in the group and they've got a Purloiner with a dagger that can cast Decipher Languages once a day, so that will help.

I have a lot of affection for "faction play" (two-year campaign with Caverns of Thracia) so I'll definitely aim at trying to make the inhabitants of the city have their own textured motivations that the party can tap into one way or another.

Life got and remains busy so I've not been able to get back to this thread. Map and adventure "seeds" soon, I hope.

Rules Discussion » Escaping "engaged in melee" as a spellcaster » 2/11/2018 10:05 pm

nemomeme
Replies: 41

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Thanks for the thoughts/help. Most games I run don't want cases & subcases of rules. I try to keep things light and less regimented, but the AS&SH ruleset seems to me to be trying to account for a lot of cases & subcases so I thought I was leaning into that vibe with my questions and concerns about how all of this is "supposed to" work. Also a couple of my current players seem to want a high degree of clarity & consistency or they'll spend more time talking about rules and rulings than in playing.

Rules Discussion » Escaping "engaged in melee" as a spellcaster » 2/11/2018 1:36 pm

nemomeme
Replies: 41

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So someone who says they're attacking may be assumed to be prepared to pursue any enemy falling back unless they say otherwise? And I need to confirm whether or not they're willing to be drawn into some kind of awful pincer maneuver, being surrounded by the enemy's front line fighters if the spellcaster withdraws? And I need to get this kind of clarity of IF-THEN intent contingencies at the beginning of each round? That doesn't sound quite right either. Or I'm misunderstanding the case.

The way the Fighting Withdrawal (Backpedalling) rules are written (p254), I think the intent must be the enemies of the backpedal-er get to to decide at that point whether or not to pursue (even if they have already attacked), and so Fighting Withdrawals (and pursuits) are an exception case altogether to the top-of-round general intent declarations?

Rules Discussion » Escaping "engaged in melee" as a spellcaster » 2/11/2018 1:14 am

nemomeme
Replies: 41

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Since a character (PC or NPC) declares (determines) their action(s) for the round before initiative is rolled, how could an enemy ever "pursue" a backpedaling character (caster or otherwise) in phase two of a round?

We had our second ASSH session today. We had fun, but the players are pretty frustrated with the two-phase combat (probably with my inability to relay how it works as much as anything). "Lost" actions due to a target already being dead/down are also a big concern.

I mention this because this "pursue" option has me against questioning even my current poor understanding of the rules with respect to the way combat works.

Adventures » Dwellers of the Forbidden City » 2/04/2018 10:33 pm

nemomeme
Replies: 10

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Cool. I like your Conan blog, Grimmshade. Hopefully we can help each other find what is best in DotFC life for our respective tables.

Adventures » Dwellers of the Forbidden City » 2/04/2018 5:06 pm

nemomeme
Replies: 10

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I'm no artist, but here's the "treasure map" I made that presumes DotFC's jungle-hidden ruins are one hex immediately to the east of the volcanic Mt Larashtra in Lemuria. It also inverts the original north-south orientation of the city. The southern edge of the original map is now on the northern, Jhaman Ket/Angkarta-ward side of the remnant.

http://i67.tinypic.com/2qlcxnl.jpg

I have errands to run, but I'll expound on the map when I can.

Adventures » Dwellers of the Forbidden City » 2/04/2018 4:56 pm

nemomeme
Replies: 10

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I thought I'd start a thread for this "unofficial ASSH module," since there isn't one yet and I'm running David Cook's I1: Dwellers of the Forbidden City for my ASSH game.

Since there's no tropical jungle as such in the main of Hyperborea, I placed the forbidden city in the Lemurian Remnant of Joseph D. Salvador's Forgetten Fane of the Coiled Goddess. I considered a slight re-skin to place it in the rainforests of the Savage Boreal Coast and I'm sure it would work fine there as well.

I'll likely post various alterations of the module for my game here, but feel free to pipe in about the module for ASSH more generally - ideas you have if you were to run it, etc. The group has not yet reached the city proper, so I have plenty of time to steal your ideas! Expect lots of spoilers downthread. (My players in particular, stay out!)

As Cook's DotFC is for AD&D characters of 4th to 7th level, one might use it as a prelude to the Forgotten Fane as a part of a Lemurian series, placing various leads to the Isle of the Serpent within the ruins of the forbidden city and/or in the temple city of Jhaman Ket . I allowed players to begin with 16k XP, so there's one 5th level Ixian Fighter and three 4th level characters (a Lemurian Wizard, an Atlantean Purloiner & a Pictish Shaman). A fifth player may join at some point.

General Discussion » Starting items for 4th-5th level AS&SH adventurers » 1/15/2018 9:28 pm

nemomeme
Replies: 1

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I put together a document for PCs starting with 16,000 experience points for a Dwellers of the Forbidden City mini-campaign I'm starting (I intend to run a campaign from scratch assuming this goes well). I thought I might as well share the text here in case someone else finds it useful. The below text assumes the conception of non-magical +1 armor and weapons. It also assumes that most permanent magic items have some sort of drawback.

Astonishing Swordsmen and Sorcerers of Hyperborea Starting Items

All AS&SH characters beginning with 16k experience points start play with the following items:

* Any one of the Premade Starting Equipment Lists By Class (see separate document).

* Items from any of the other “packs” from the provided Quick Start Equipment Menu lists purchasable from your 3d6x100 g.p. in coins, gems and jewelry

* Roll 1d6 to determine your special items according to your (sub-)class:


Fighter or Fighter Subclass Special Items *†
1-3: Potion of Healing, Fine Armor, a silver melee weapon OR an additional Potion of Healing.
4-5: Potion of Heroic Action, Fine Armor, any melee weapon of Hyperborean Steel‡ OR 20 “Arrows/Bolts of the Hawk” (+1)
6: Potion of Super-heroic Action, Fine Armor, Aodhán's +2 Hurling Hand Axe: this axe is composed of steel, perfectly balanced & razor-edged. It can be hurled to a range of 60' with no penalty to the attack roll; at its maximum range it halts in midair and drops to the ground. The bearer of Aodhán's Axe tends to become reckless over time & perhaps cursed to an early grave (-1 penalty to all Saving Throws)

Cleric or Cleric Subclass Special Items *
1-3: Antidote, Fine Armor, Scroll of Distinguish Alignment & Remove Curse
4-5[color=#222222]:

Rules Discussion » Running past foes » 1/12/2018 10:43 pm

nemomeme
Replies: 12

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Thanks for the feedback everyone. http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/happy.png


When I'm playing Moldvay Basic or similar, I'll be more likely to keep to strict ranks. With its pulp inspirations and all its combat modifiers and options, I feel like this ruleset is looking more to heroic fiction and that warrants for me more of a free-flowing approach to skirmishes than with some of the older games that seem to be traced more directly from the hobby's wargaming roots.

Still not sure what I'll do exactly. Probably just make some situational ruling in the moment and see what people think.

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