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4/09/2018 12:51 pm  #1


Xp's for spell/prayer books

Would you reward x.p.'s for a found or captured spell/prayer book basically like you would for spell scrolls? This makes sense to me. curious how others handle it is all. 


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4/09/2018 1:00 pm  #2


Re: Xp's for spell/prayer books

Don't think I would. Not as useful. They might be able to get spells from it but can't really cast directly from it like a scroll.

Also, the spell book is its own reward. Assuming it has spells that the caster could read and use.


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4/09/2018 6:30 pm  #3


Re: Xp's for spell/prayer books

It's funny, because David and I recently had this conversation, but ultimately we decided not to do it.


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4/10/2018 7:31 am  #4


Re: Xp's for spell/prayer books

Ghul wrote:

It's funny, because David and I recently had this conversation, but ultimately we decided not to do it.

Really what was your reasoning? Seems there would be no better experience for a caster than getting their hands on a book full of arcane magics that the have not yet learned. Obviously they would need to study and all.  


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4/10/2018 8:59 am  #5


Re: Xp's for spell/prayer books

gizmomathboy wrote:

 the spell book is its own reward. Assuming it has spells that the caster could read and use.

I'm with Giz on this. To me, this is no different than giving a fighter XP for finding a +2 longsword. 

 

4/10/2018 10:45 am  #6


Re: Xp's for spell/prayer books

Thrasaric wrote:

Ghul wrote:

It's funny, because David and I recently had this conversation, but ultimately we decided not to do it.

Really what was your reasoning? Seems there would be no better experience for a caster than getting their hands on a book full of arcane magics that the have not yet learned. Obviously they would need to study and all.  

The first reason was that there was no historical precedence, not only in the more traditional roots of the hobby, but also not in our own previous publications (rule books and modules). 

Giz touches on the second reason, which I agree with.

Lastly, if a sorcerer uses an acquired spell book to develop a new spell, I may, depending on the circumstances, award that character a small amount of XP for succeeding. 

So, a combination of reasons. Much like reviewing a play in professional sports, I saw no compelling reason or evidence to overturn the ruling on the field. ;)
 


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4/10/2018 11:04 am  #7


Re: Xp's for spell/prayer books

Ghul wrote:

Thrasaric wrote:

Ghul wrote:

It's funny, because David and I recently had this conversation, but ultimately we decided not to do it.

Really what was your reasoning? Seems there would be no better experience for a caster than getting their hands on a book full of arcane magics that the have not yet learned. Obviously they would need to study and all.  

The first reason was that there was no historical precedence, not only in the more traditional roots of the hobby, but also not in our own previous publications (rule books and modules). 

Giz touches on the second reason, which I agree with.

Lastly, if a sorcerer uses an acquired spell book to develop a new spell, I may, depending on the circumstances, award that character a small amount of XP for succeeding. 

So, a combination of reasons. Much like reviewing a play in professional sports, I saw no compelling reason or evidence to overturn the ruling on the field. ;)
 

thanks, bit we would award them for using a found scroll? Maybe that is the part I am mis understanding.
 


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4/10/2018 11:37 am  #8


Re: Xp's for spell/prayer books

Thrasaric wrote:

Ghul wrote:

Thrasaric wrote:


Really what was your reasoning? Seems there would be no better experience for a caster than getting their hands on a book full of arcane magics that the have not yet learned. Obviously they would need to study and all.  

The first reason was that there was no historical precedence, not only in the more traditional roots of the hobby, but also not in our own previous publications (rule books and modules). 

Giz touches on the second reason, which I agree with.

Lastly, if a sorcerer uses an acquired spell book to develop a new spell, I may, depending on the circumstances, award that character a small amount of XP for succeeding. 

So, a combination of reasons. Much like reviewing a play in professional sports, I saw no compelling reason or evidence to overturn the ruling on the field. ;)
 

thanks, bit we would award them for using a found scroll? Maybe that is the part I am mis understanding.
 

A scroll detonates like a spell but is not actually a fully formulated spell as in a spell book. A scroll, as a magic item, can be used straight away, if the class is correct. For example, a necromancer can use a necromancer's scroll without actually knowing the spell, including (with a chance of failure) scroll spell that is of a higher level than he is normally capable of casting. A scroll is more like a single-use magic item.
 


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4/10/2018 11:47 am  #9


Re: Xp's for spell/prayer books

Never really thought of giving xp for the "spellbook" and so probably won't start.  Magic is so eclectic in AS&SH that one sorcerers spell book may not be terribly useful to learn new spells without instruction from that type of sorcerer, the closest one being dead now.


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And sweat at the daily round,
While in my soul forever
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4/10/2018 7:01 pm  #10


Re: Xp's for spell/prayer books

Ar'Pharazon wrote:

gizmomathboy wrote:

 the spell book is its own reward. Assuming it has spells that the caster could read and use.

I'm with Giz on this. To me, this is no different than giving a fighter XP for finding a +2 longsword. 

Me too, especially as I allow sorcerers a varying chance to learn spells of different traditions.


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4/11/2018 3:53 am  #11


Re: Xp's for spell/prayer books

Ar'Pharazon wrote:

gizmomathboy wrote:

 the spell book is its own reward. Assuming it has spells that the caster could read and use.

I'm with Giz on this. To me, this is no different than giving a fighter XP for finding a +2 longsword. 

But... ASSH _does_ award XP for +2 swords.

Last edited by Ynas Midgard (4/11/2018 3:55 am)

 

4/15/2018 3:57 pm  #12


Re: Xp's for spell/prayer books

Been traveling, missed this thread. Anyway...

AS&SH Page 434 wrote:

An item’s XP value is intended for characters who retain the magic item earned or discovered.

I read this passage as indicating that a character who retains an earned or discovered Sword, Long +2 gets 800 XP (or potentially receives up to 4,800 GP if he sells it), using values from page 451. It isn’t clear from the passage on page 434 that the character necessarily has to be able to use or equip the item - it says retain, not use or equip. Maybe Jeff meant use or equip and wanted to employ a less gamey word, but even if so, I think it’s now ambiguous enough to support either intepretation.

So, based on this line of thought, I would rule that a spellbook discovered and retained would grant XP, same as any other discovered and retained treasure item. How much? Probably an amount equal to the combined scroll value of all the spells in the spellbook. Plus, even if the sorcerer (or whoever) can’t understand the spells, he can still retain the spellbook by filing it in his library. I imagine this is how sorcerers might accumulate highly sought-after libraries - who knows what secrets lie buried in those collections! Necrofoozla the Wicked may have been a Necromancer, but his vast library might still have something for Blaze the Pyromancer. More generally, this interpretation helps explain why any sort of hoard might have an unexpected item in it.

Needless to say, these are only my opinions! 


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4/15/2018 5:26 pm  #13


Re: Xp's for spell/prayer books

It's a reasonable response, Chainsaw. I understand what you're saying, and it's worth giving some thought to in the future. Your opinions matter!


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4/15/2018 5:59 pm  #14


Re: Xp's for spell/prayer books

Chainsaw wrote:

Been traveling, missed this thread. Anyway...

AS&SH Page 434 wrote:

An item’s XP value is intended for characters who retain the magic item earned or discovered.

I read this passage as indicating that a character who retains an earned or discovered Sword, Long +2 gets 800 XP (or potentially receives up to 4,800 GP if he sells it), using values from page 451. It isn’t clear from the passage on page 434 that the character necessarily has to be able to use or equip the item - it says retain, not use or equip. Maybe Jeff meant use or equip and wanted to employ a less gamey word, but even if so, I think it’s now ambiguous enough to support either intepretation.

So, based on this line of thought, I would rule that a spellbook discovered and retained would grant XP, same as any other discovered and retained treasure item. How much? Probably an amount equal to the combined scroll value of all the spells in the spellbook. Plus, even if the sorcerer (or whoever) can’t understand the spells, he can still retain the spellbook by filing it in his library. I imagine this is how sorcerers might accumulate highly sought-after libraries - who knows what secrets lie buried in those collections! Necrofoozla the Wicked may have been a Necromancer, but his vast library might still have something for Blaze the Pyromancer. More generally, this interpretation helps explain why any sort of hoard might have an unexpected item in it.

Needless to say, these are only my opinions!

Would only one character receive xp from a magic item or would the item award be tossed in with the rest of the treasure and monster xp to be divided among the characters?

As far as spell book xp I generally do not have every magic using NPC's spell book statted out so I would probably be lazy and give a general 500xp per level of the spell caster npc. or something.if I decide to bother.
 


“How can I wear the harness of toil
And sweat at the daily round,
While in my soul forever
The drums of Pictdom sound?” 
 

4/15/2018 6:12 pm  #15


Re: Xp's for spell/prayer books

Ghul wrote:

It's a reasonable response, Chainsaw. I understand what you're saying, and it's worth giving some thought to in the future. Your opinions matter!

Thanks!

mabon5127 wrote:

Would only one character receive xp from a magic item or would the item award be tossed in with the rest of the treasure and monster xp to be divided among the characters?

In my games, I split the XP value of any treasure items the party retains among all members of the party and I think this is consistent with (or at least compatible with) the rules for XP Distribution on page 266.

mabon5127 wrote:

As far as spell book xp I generally do not have every magic using NPC's spell book statted out

In some cases I would roll it up at the table quickly (like for a NPC sorcerer who is part of a wandering monster encounter), but in others I have it done ahead of time (like when the spellbook is part of the situation’s main treasure and I know people will ask about it).


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4/15/2018 6:34 pm  #16


Re: Xp's for spell/prayer books

I split the xp of all items as well.

I have never had the question come up from a loot standpoint. It's a rare occasion that they face and  slay an Npc Sorcerer. They tend to not be in a position to be attacked or escape while the minions are butchered. It happens but very rarely.


“How can I wear the harness of toil
And sweat at the daily round,
While in my soul forever
The drums of Pictdom sound?” 
 

4/16/2018 8:47 am  #17


Re: Xp's for spell/prayer books

mabon5127 wrote:

I split the xp of all items as well.

I have never had the question come up from a loot standpoint. It's a rare occasion that they face and slay an Npc Sorcerer. They tend to not be in a position to be attacked or escape while the minions are butchered. It happens but very rarely.

I combine the xps for most things into a pool and divide up except for the magic items. I award the xps for a set of armour to the one using it. Sword etc. Not saying it's not right to just pool it all , i never considered doing it that way actually. 
 


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4/16/2018 8:52 am  #18


Re: Xp's for spell/prayer books

Thrasaric wrote:

mabon5127 wrote:

I split the xp of all items as well.

I have never had the question come up from a loot standpoint. It's a rare occasion that they face and slay an Npc Sorcerer. They tend to not be in a position to be attacked or escape while the minions are butchered. It happens but very rarely.

I combine the xps for most things into a pool and divide up except for the magic items. I award the xps for a set of armour to the one using it. Sword etc. Not saying it's not right to just pool it all , i never considered doing it that way actually. 
 

Yup. Not even sure what the raw is on the subject.  I've just always done it the other way. Interesting how that works.


“How can I wear the harness of toil
And sweat at the daily round,
While in my soul forever
The drums of Pictdom sound?” 
 

4/16/2018 8:56 am  #19


Re: Xp's for spell/prayer books

mabon5127 wrote:

Thrasaric wrote:

mabon5127 wrote:

I split the xp of all items as well.

I have never had the question come up from a loot standpoint. It's a rare occasion that they face and slay an Npc Sorcerer. They tend to not be in a position to be attacked or escape while the minions are butchered. It happens but very rarely.

I combine the xps for most things into a pool and divide up except for the magic items. I award the xps for a set of armour to the one using it. Sword etc. Not saying it's not right to just pool it all , i never considered doing it that way actually. 
 

Yup. Not even sure what the raw is on the subject. I've just always done it the other way. Interesting how that works.

That is why I like these boards, I am interested in how other people do things and run their games.


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4/16/2018 9:08 am  #20


Re: Xp's for spell/prayer books

I divide combat XP among the whole party (barring some really unusual case where a PC truly goes into battle alone), but I award XP for both monetary and magical treasure based on who actually gets it. So if the players make a deal where some PCs get more gold to make up for other PCs getting magic items, the XP awards reflect this.


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