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2/24/2018 2:03 pm  #1


Charisma Turning bonus

From the book, emphasis mine:

Undead Turning Adjustment: A modifier applied to turn undead attempts made by clerics and certain subclasses.

However, none of the sub-classes with Turning Ability list this bonus as applicable under the description of their turning ability .

I'm inclined to give it to all of them, but would appreciate it if one or more of you could double-check and correct me if I am wrong about none of the sub-classes explicitly listing it.

Normally, I'd say, "if it ain't there, you don't get it."  But, Ghul took pains to explicitly say whether or not sub-classes get extra spells due to high ability scores, so I suspect this may be an oversight.

 

2/24/2018 2:13 pm  #2


Re: Charisma Turning bonus

I took "certain subclasses" to be a reference to the fact that two cleric subclasses (monks and druids) aren't able to turn undead at all. I would give the bonus to all of them that can (and also necromancers and paladins - basically, if you can turn undead, you get the bonus).

Hopefully Jeff will chime in with an "official" clarification. http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/smile.png

EDIT: And I guess runegravers also cannot turn undead. http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/embarrassed.png

Last edited by Blackadder23 (2/24/2018 2:19 pm)


"The fear of death, its risk each time, is one of the most stimulating parts of the game. It therefore behooves the referee to include as many mystifying and dangerous areas as is consistent with a reasonable chance for survival." - J. Eric Holmes
 

2/24/2018 3:04 pm  #3


Re: Charisma Turning bonus

Maybe for Undead with a brain to even process Charisma, but for Animal Skeletons? I'm not so sure.

 

2/24/2018 4:34 pm  #4


Re: Charisma Turning bonus

I don't think clerics get a turning bonus for being persuasive; I think it's more along the lines of "more forceful personality = more ability to channel divine wrath".


"The fear of death, its risk each time, is one of the most stimulating parts of the game. It therefore behooves the referee to include as many mystifying and dangerous areas as is consistent with a reasonable chance for survival." - J. Eric Holmes
 

2/24/2018 4:47 pm  #5


Re: Charisma Turning bonus

Blackadder23 wrote:

I don't think clerics get a turning bonus for being persuasive; I think it's more along the lines of "more forceful personality = more ability to channel divine wrath".

Yea I imagine Charisma as strength of personality, conviction, ego, leadership potential, and willpower (the last one deviates from AS&SH but I stand behind my decision). 
 

 

2/24/2018 5:52 pm  #6


Re: Charisma Turning bonus

francisca wrote:

From the book, emphasis mine:

Undead Turning Adjustment: A modifier applied to turn undead attempts made by clerics and certain subclasses.

However, none of the sub-classes with Turning Ability list this bonus as applicable under the description of their turning ability .

I'm inclined to give it to all of them, but would appreciate it if one or more of you could double-check and correct me if I am wrong about none of the sub-classes explicitly listing it.

Normally, I'd say, "if it ain't there, you don't get it."  But, Ghul took pains to explicitly say whether or not sub-classes get extra spells due to high ability scores, so I suspect this may be an oversight.

The Cha bonus is not listed under the base Cleric class either.  I would assume that the bonus is only given to those classes that turn undead, Cleric, Priest, and Shaman.


“How can I wear the harness of toil
And sweat at the daily round,
While in my soul forever
The drums of Pictdom sound?” 
 

2/24/2018 6:12 pm  #7


Re: Charisma Turning bonus

mabon5127 wrote:

francisca wrote:

From the book, emphasis mine:

Undead Turning Adjustment: A modifier applied to turn undead attempts made by clerics and certain subclasses.

However, none of the sub-classes with Turning Ability list this bonus as applicable under the description of their turning ability .

I'm inclined to give it to all of them, but would appreciate it if one or more of you could double-check and correct me if I am wrong about none of the sub-classes explicitly listing it.

Normally, I'd say, "if it ain't there, you don't get it."  But, Ghul took pains to explicitly say whether or not sub-classes get extra spells due to high ability scores, so I suspect this may be an oversight.

The Cha bonus is not listed under the base Cleric class either.  I would assume that the bonus is only given to those classes that turn undead, Cleric, Priest, and Shaman.

Paladin, too.  Which is what started this with me.

Last edited by francisca (2/24/2018 6:34 pm)

     Thread Starter
 

2/24/2018 6:42 pm  #8


Re: Charisma Turning bonus

Blackadder23 wrote:

I don't think clerics get a turning bonus for being persuasive; I think it's more along the lines of "more forceful personality = more ability to channel divine wrath".

Nah. Pass.

 

2/24/2018 7:10 pm  #9


Re: Charisma Turning bonus

francisca wrote:

mabon5127 wrote:

francisca wrote:

From the book, emphasis mine:

However, none of the sub-classes with Turning Ability list this bonus as applicable under the description of their turning ability .

I'm inclined to give it to all of them, but would appreciate it if one or more of you could double-check and correct me if I am wrong about none of the sub-classes explicitly listing it.

Normally, I'd say, "if it ain't there, you don't get it."  But, Ghul took pains to explicitly say whether or not sub-classes get extra spells due to high ability scores, so I suspect this may be an oversight.

The Cha bonus is not listed under the base Cleric class either.  I would assume that the bonus is only given to those classes that turn undead, Cleric, Priest, and Shaman.

Paladin, too.  Which is what started this with me.

Also necromancers. And purloiners.

(I think that's all of them.)
 


"The fear of death, its risk each time, is one of the most stimulating parts of the game. It therefore behooves the referee to include as many mystifying and dangerous areas as is consistent with a reasonable chance for survival." - J. Eric Holmes
 

2/24/2018 10:33 pm  #10


Re: Charisma Turning bonus

Blackadder23 wrote:

francisca wrote:

mabon5127 wrote:


The Cha bonus is not listed under the base Cleric class either.  I would assume that the bonus is only given to those classes that turn undead, Cleric, Priest, and Shaman.

Paladin, too.  Which is what started this with me.

Also necromancers. And purloiners.

(I think that's all of them.)
 

This would be useful to know before my Ixian necromant next delves into Foolsgrave, since CHA is her high stat! :D

Allan.

 

2/25/2018 5:03 pm  #11


Re: Charisma Turning bonus

Any cleric, paladin, necromancer, priest, shaman, or purloiner with 15+ CH gains a +1 bonus, as noted under VOL. III, p. 253: Table 94. The phrase “certain subclasses” was meant to indicate that not all cleric subclasses have the turn undead​ ability, and some non-cleric subclasses do. Sorry if the intent was unclear.

 

2/26/2018 8:14 am  #12


Re: Charisma Turning bonus

Unless the character type has already the ability to turn undead, they should not be allowed to turn undead based on their high Charisma. The ability to turn Undead is based on your connection to your Deity/Religion, and not directly because of your charisma. The Charisma bonus in relation to Turning is the ability to influence/believability of righteousness, without the connection to the Deity/religion you can be greatly convincing, but without the power backing you (kind of like doing social engineering, you can fake it great, but have no background to verify if called onto the carpet). Would you give a Bard with an 18 charisma the ability to turn undead?

The bonus to turning is an addition to your Turn level, in the case of a character class like Paladin, who does not get turning till after 1st level, they "may" be able depending on the DM's home rules, but that should only be because he will eventually have that ability and Do already have a connection to their Diety/Religion. In the afore mentioned question on Bard, the turn ability could be added to say, the ability to sway an audience of your singing/playing..


-- 
BlackKnight, AKA Sausage
Been playing Tabletop games for 40+ years...
 

2/26/2018 11:02 am  #13


Re: Charisma Turning bonus

If there is no column for TA in a class's advancement table, treat TA as " - " at all levels, and it is not improved by any means. If it lists it as an integer, then the modifier from Charisma applies.

Easy-peasy.

 

2/26/2018 1:16 pm  #14


Re: Charisma Turning bonus

BlackKnight wrote:

Unless the character type has already the ability to turn undead, they should not be allowed to turn undead based on their high Charisma. The ability to turn Undead is based on your connection to your Deity/Religion, and not directly because of your charisma. The Charisma bonus in relation to Turning is the ability to influence/believability of righteousness, without the connection to the Deity/religion you can be greatly convincing, but without the power backing you (kind of like doing social engineering, you can fake it great, but have no background to verify if called onto the carpet). Would you give a Bard with an 18 charisma the ability to turn undead?

The bonus to turning is an addition to your Turn level, in the case of a character class like Paladin, who does not get turning till after 1st level, they "may" be able depending on the DM's home rules, but that should only be because he will eventually have that ability and Do already have a connection to their Diety/Religion. In the afore mentioned question on Bard, the turn ability could be added to say, the ability to sway an audience of your singing/playing..

Who is suggesting that a high Charisma would allow a character to turn undead, if they didn't have that as part of their class abilities?  Certainly not me.

     Thread Starter
 

2/26/2018 1:17 pm  #15


Re: Charisma Turning bonus

DMPrata wrote:

Any cleric, paladin, necromancer, priest, shaman, or purloiner with 15+ CH gains a +1 bonus, as noted under VOL. III, p. 253: Table 94. The phrase “certain subclasses” was meant to indicate that not all cleric subclasses have the turn undead​ ability, and some non-cleric subclasses do. Sorry if the intent was unclear.

Thanks for the clarification!

     Thread Starter
 

2/26/2018 2:44 pm  #16


Re: Charisma Turning bonus

francisca wrote:

DMPrata wrote:

Any cleric, paladin, necromancer, priest, shaman, or purloiner with 15+ CH gains a +1 bonus, as noted under VOL. III, p. 253: Table 94. The phrase “certain subclasses” was meant to indicate that not all cleric subclasses have the turn undead​ ability, and some non-cleric subclasses do. Sorry if the intent was unclear.

Thanks for the clarification!

Yes, thanks, David.
 


Astonishing Swordsmen & Sorcerers of Hyperborea - A Role-Playing Game of Swords, Sorcery, and Weird Fantasy
 

2/26/2018 3:11 pm  #17


Re: Charisma Turning bonus

francisca wrote:

BlackKnight wrote:

Unless the character type has already the ability to turn undead, they should not be allowed to turn undead based on their high Charisma. The ability to turn Undead is based on your connection to your Deity/Religion, and not directly because of your charisma. The Charisma bonus in relation to Turning is the ability to influence/believability of righteousness, without the connection to the Deity/religion you can be greatly convincing, but without the power backing you (kind of like doing social engineering, you can fake it great, but have no background to verify if called onto the carpet). Would you give a Bard with an 18 charisma the ability to turn undead?

The bonus to turning is an addition to your Turn level, in the case of a character class like Paladin, who does not get turning till after 1st level, they "may" be able depending on the DM's home rules, but that should only be because he will eventually have that ability and Do already have a connection to their Diety/Religion. In the afore mentioned question on Bard, the turn ability could be added to say, the ability to sway an audience of your singing/playing..

Who is suggesting that a high Charisma would allow a character to turn undead, if they didn't have that as part of their class abilities?  Certainly not me.

Miss caught after re-reading the posts, the mention of the "subclasses" got me confused to think of "other subclasses", not just the clerical ones...

Last edited by BlackKnight (2/26/2018 3:12 pm)


-- 
BlackKnight, AKA Sausage
Been playing Tabletop games for 40+ years...
 

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