Image and video hosting by TinyPic
Image and video hosting by TinyPic


Being the Official Discussion Forum for Astonishing Swordsmen & Sorcerers of Hyperborea™


Visit us at the HYPERBOREA web site!

You are not logged in. Would you like to login or register?

2/18/2018 4:52 pm  #1


Spell Recovery

So the book says officially you memorize spells once per day.  must have 6-8 hours of rest and then 10 minutes per spell level of study. I would normally let players go rest sleep and re study in less than 24 hours if they expended their spells. For instance a first level magician wakes at 6 am 6:30 she casts sleep. so no more magic till tomorrow at 6 am? I am interested in the intention of the rules. I know as DM i can make the call either way I see fit =)


Admin of Eldritch Adventuring gaming group on Facebook
join up love to talk AS&SH
https://www.facebook.com/groups/Eldritch.Adventuring/?ref=group_header
 
 

2/18/2018 5:56 pm  #2


Re: Spell Recovery

This is one thing about old school games that has always stuck in my craw. Worse if your one spell is interrupted. Basically makes the dedicated spell-user a useless tagalong if not a liability at the early levels. My house rule is to roll 1d6 after casting any spell. If the result is higher than the spell level, you can cast it again. Done and done.

Last edited by Jimm.Iblis (2/18/2018 5:58 pm)


"Role-playing isn't storytelling. If the dungeon master is directing it, it's not a game."  ~ Gary Gygax
 

2/18/2018 7:00 pm  #3


Re: Spell Recovery

Jimm.Iblis wrote:

This is one thing about old school games that has always stuck in my craw. Worse if your one spell is interrupted. Basically makes the dedicated spell-user a useless tagalong if not a liability at the early levels. My house rule is to roll 1d6 after casting any spell. If the result is higher than the spell level, you can cast it again. Done and done.

I let characters cast spells from their books.  It takes "longer" making combat spells not so useful but others can be used without "wasting" a slot.  Set that Alarm, re ignite the light spell, put on Sorcerous Armour, etc if they keep an open slot..
 


“How can I wear the harness of toil
And sweat at the daily round,
While in my soul forever
The drums of Pictdom sound?” 
 

2/18/2018 7:58 pm  #4


Re: Spell Recovery

Interesting options: I've toyed with revisiting the old "roll 2d6 vs. target #" to cast method, having sorcerers roll a ST to recover, using ritual-casting (as implemented in Beyond the Wall: 1 hr/level to cast, roll to see if anything goes wrong during that time, though the ritual always works). So many variants, but I usually just settle for the RAW.


"My virtue is of the quintessential sort, being distilled from the erudition of the ages. How can I be other than virtuous? I am dispassionate to the ordinary motives of mankind."
Jack Vance, The Eyes of the Overworld
 

2/18/2018 8:18 pm  #5


Re: Spell Recovery

Jimm.Iblis wrote:

This is one thing about old school games that has always stuck in my craw. Worse if your one spell is interrupted. Basically makes the dedicated spell-user a useless tagalong if not a liability at the early levels.

In AS&SH, bear in mind, a level one Magician with a familiar and a 13 intelligence can memorize three spells. Plus, low-level Magicians, in my humble opinion, ought to be using excess gold (they’re not buying expensive armor) to employ hirelings (such as spearmen) to create a buffer rank in melee (to minimize chance of spell disruption) and more broadly to help them survive to more powerful levels. It’s a very common strategy in my games at least, to the point of being standard operating procedure. /shrug


Blackadder23: Insanely long villain soliloquy, then "Your action?"
BORGO'S PLAYER: I shoot him in the face
 

2/18/2018 8:41 pm  #6


Re: Spell Recovery

Chainsaw wrote:

Jimm.Iblis wrote:

This is one thing about old school games that has always stuck in my craw. Worse if your one spell is interrupted. Basically makes the dedicated spell-user a useless tagalong if not a liability at the early levels.

In AS&SH, bear in mind, a level one Magician with a familiar and a 13 intelligence can memorize three spells. Plus, low-level Magicians, in my humble opinion, ought to be using excess gold (they’re not buying expensive armor) to employ hirelings (such as spearmen) to create a buffer rank in melee (to minimize chance of spell disruption) and more broadly to help them survive to more powerful levels. It’s a very common strategy in my games at least, to the point of being standard operating procedure. /shrug

Yup.

 

2/18/2018 8:53 pm  #7


Re: Spell Recovery

Iron Ranger wrote:

Chainsaw wrote:

Jimm.Iblis wrote:

This is one thing about old school games that has always stuck in my craw. Worse if your one spell is interrupted. Basically makes the dedicated spell-user a useless tagalong if not a liability at the early levels.

In AS&SH, bear in mind, a level one Magician with a familiar and a 13 intelligence can memorize three spells. Plus, low-level Magicians, in my humble opinion, ought to be using excess gold (they’re not buying expensive armor) to employ hirelings (such as spearmen) to create a buffer rank in melee (to minimize chance of spell disruption) and more broadly to help them survive to more powerful levels. It’s a very common strategy in my games at least, to the point of being standard operating procedure. /shrug

Yup.

Agree.


“How can I wear the harness of toil
And sweat at the daily round,
While in my soul forever
The drums of Pictdom sound?” 
 

2/18/2018 9:20 pm  #8


Re: Spell Recovery

mabon5127 wrote:

Iron Ranger wrote:

Chainsaw wrote:

In AS&SH, bear in mind, a level one Magician with a familiar and a 13 intelligence can memorize three spells. Plus, low-level Magicians, in my humble opinion, ought to be using excess gold (they’re not buying expensive armor) to employ hirelings (such as spearmen) to create a buffer rank in melee (to minimize chance of spell disruption) and more broadly to help them survive to more powerful levels. It’s a very common strategy in my games at least, to the point of being standard operating procedure. /shrug

Yup.

Agree.

I also agree, and magicians can additionally spend their extra gold on effective weapons like incendiary oil and holy water.

Anyway, someone needs to guard the treasure and hold a light source during combat. http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/smile.png

Last edited by Blackadder23 (2/18/2018 9:22 pm)


"The fear of death, its risk each time, is one of the most stimulating parts of the game. It therefore behooves the referee to include as many mystifying and dangerous areas as is consistent with a reasonable chance for survival." - J. Eric Holmes
 

2/19/2018 8:18 am  #9


Re: Spell Recovery

Blackadder23 wrote:

mabon5127 wrote:

Iron Ranger wrote:


Yup.

Agree.

I also agree, and magicians can additionally spend their extra gold on effective weapons like incendiary oil and holy water.

These are all great suggestions and I will be doing a post to help players of casters. Although I am still curious as to the intention of the rules only once per day or if there is time can they sleep and restudy a second set of castings within a day. 
 


Admin of Eldritch Adventuring gaming group on Facebook
join up love to talk AS&SH
https://www.facebook.com/groups/Eldritch.Adventuring/?ref=group_header
 
     Thread Starter
 

2/19/2018 9:08 am  #10


Re: Spell Recovery

Thrasaric wrote:

I am still curious as to the intention of the rules only once per day or if there is time can they sleep and restudy a second set of castings within a day.

Maybe Ghul can chime in himself as to what he intended, but beware, he often says that ambiguities are intentional and that referees should feel free to interpret as they see fit.

AS&SH, Vol. II, p. 137 wrote:

Once a spell is discharged, it is erased from the sorcerer’s memory and cannot be used until at least the next day (unless, of course, the spell is memorized twice).

I interpret the bold as referring to the traditional 24 hour period. I personally envision this limitation as reflecting magician’s mind being pushed to its physical and metaphysical max as he harnesses ancient, supernatural forces, such that he cannot repeat the whole process again (not just memorizing, but also casting) without spending time to let his mind recover (he’s not simply reloading a gun). He might go insane if he tried to bend the realities of time and space again so soon! To approach the challenge without being fully recovered invites disaster.


Blackadder23: Insanely long villain soliloquy, then "Your action?"
BORGO'S PLAYER: I shoot him in the face
 

2/19/2018 9:17 am  #11


Re: Spell Recovery

Chainsaw wrote:

Thrasaric wrote:

I am still curious as to the intention of the rules only once per day or if there is time can they sleep and restudy a second set of castings within a day.

Maybe Ghul can chime in himself as to what he intended, but beware, he often says that ambiguities are intentional and that referees should feel free to interpret as they see fit.

AS&SH, Vol. II, p. 137 wrote:

Once a spell is discharged, it is erased from the sorcerer’s memory and cannot be used until at least the next day (unless, of course, the spell is memorized twice).

I interpret the bold as referring to the traditional 24 hour period. I personally envision this limitation as reflecting magician’s mind being pushed to its physical and metaphysical max as he harnesses ancient, supernatural forces, such that he cannot repeat the whole process again (not just memorizing, but also casting) without spending time to let his mind recover (he’s not simply reloading a gun). He might go insane if he tried to bend the realities of time and space again so soon! To approach the challenge without being fully recovered invites disaster.

I think you are probably correct. There is similar wording in a few places. My casters best get frugal with them spells!
 


Admin of Eldritch Adventuring gaming group on Facebook
join up love to talk AS&SH
https://www.facebook.com/groups/Eldritch.Adventuring/?ref=group_header
 
     Thread Starter
 

2/19/2018 9:52 am  #12


Re: Spell Recovery

Thrasaric wrote:

My casters best get frugal with them spells!

Haha! Well, encourage them to employ men-at-arms too. Players of lower-level magicians in my campaigns have enjoyed placing their magicians safely away from the action and rolling attacks for their spearmen (or hurling flaming oil).


Blackadder23: Insanely long villain soliloquy, then "Your action?"
BORGO'S PLAYER: I shoot him in the face
 

2/19/2018 12:01 pm  #13


Re: Spell Recovery

Chainsaw wrote:

Thrasaric wrote:

My casters best get frugal with them spells!

Haha! Well, encourage them to employ men-at-arms too. Players of lower-level magicians in my campaigns have enjoyed placing their magicians safely away from the action and rolling attacks for their spearmen (or hurling flaming oil).

Oh absolutely, I did a post in my FB group with that and some of the other tips from this thread. I think the men at arms thing gets forgotten a lot and that is a mistake. Hell they should hire porters, torch bearers, and spearmen too. 
This thread turned out very useful in a different way than originally intended and for the better 


Admin of Eldritch Adventuring gaming group on Facebook
join up love to talk AS&SH
https://www.facebook.com/groups/Eldritch.Adventuring/?ref=group_header
 
     Thread Starter
 

2/19/2018 12:21 pm  #14


Re: Spell Recovery

Thrasaric wrote:

I did a post in my FB group with that and some of the other tips from this thread. I think the men at arms thing gets forgotten a lot and that is a mistake. Hell they should hire porters, torch bearers, and spearmen too.

Yes, definitely! My campaign groups almost always have a several armed hirelings and a torchbearer and oftentimes a porter. Some players have a gaming background that leads them to believe hirelings are either unfair or simply not permitted, but it has been easy enough to correct in my experience. People typically find it very liberating! 

Thrasaric wrote:

This thread turned out very useful in a different way than originally intended and for the better 

Cool!


Blackadder23: Insanely long villain soliloquy, then "Your action?"
BORGO'S PLAYER: I shoot him in the face
 

2/19/2018 12:45 pm  #15


Re: Spell Recovery

I guess I differ from a lot of my fellow grognards (term used with the utmost endearment) that I tend to skew toward maximizing player enjoyment. I do however, prefer to play by the rules, as loose as they are in this and like systems, because after 30 years it looks like Gygax, Arneson, Holmes et al. knew what they were doing. That said, I've found that permitting multiple castings of low-level spells doesn't break the game. Everyone has given me some food for thought though as to how to keep my own level 1 witch-man in under_score's game useful--time to use that 18 Charasma and get a pikeman! lol


"Role-playing isn't storytelling. If the dungeon master is directing it, it's not a game."  ~ Gary Gygax
 

2/19/2018 1:12 pm  #16


Re: Spell Recovery

Jimm.Iblis wrote:

I guess I differ from a lot of my fellow grognards (term used with the utmost endearment) that I tend to skew toward maximizing player enjoyment. I do however, prefer to play by the rules, as loose as they are in this and like systems, because after 30 years it looks like Gygax, Arneson, Holmes et al. knew what they were doing. That said, I've found that permitting multiple castings of low-level spells doesn't break the game. Everyone has given me some food for thought though as to how to keep my own level 1 witch-man in under_score's game useful--time to use that 18 Charasma and get a pikeman! lol

Yup! It won't break anything. Make it your own!


“How can I wear the harness of toil
And sweat at the daily round,
While in my soul forever
The drums of Pictdom sound?” 
 

2/19/2018 1:13 pm  #17


Re: Spell Recovery

Jimm.Iblis wrote:

I've found that permitting multiple castings of low-level spells doesn't break the game.

In my experience, there’s a long tradition of homebrew rules in old school games, so I would recommend doing what works for your group. Not like any of our personal games are bound by the rules of anyone else’s. 


Blackadder23: Insanely long villain soliloquy, then "Your action?"
BORGO'S PLAYER: I shoot him in the face
 

2/19/2018 1:38 pm  #18


Re: Spell Recovery

I also encourage the creation of scrolls as soon as the magician starts to acquire gold -- they can be life-savers. 

Oh, and yes, this is not an aspect of the rules that I personally gloss over or ignore -- once per 24-hour period is a hard rule in my game, and it (ideally!) should foster tactical resource management. Survival to 5th level and beyond is often the goal of many a magician, and once you attain the glory of casting level three spells, everything begins to change. 


Astonishing Swordsmen & Sorcerers of Hyperborea - A Role-Playing Game of Swords, Sorcery, and Weird Fantasy
 

2/19/2018 1:43 pm  #19


Re: Spell Recovery

Ghul wrote:

I also encourage the creation of scrolls as soon as the magician starts to acquire gold -- they can be life-savers. 

Oh, and yes, this is not an aspect of the rules that I personally gloss over or ignore -- once per 24-hour period is a hard rule in my game, and it (ideally!) should foster tactical resource management. Survival to 5th level and beyond is often the goal of many a magician, and once you attain the glory of casting level three spells, everything begins to change. 

We would expect no less my friend!


“How can I wear the harness of toil
And sweat at the daily round,
While in my soul forever
The drums of Pictdom sound?” 
 

2/19/2018 3:22 pm  #20


Re: Spell Recovery

Life in the dungeon is tough.

Sometimes the fighter shoots his last magic arrow, misses, and it breaks against a wall. Sometimes a pack of ghouls is closing in, and the cleric blows his turning roll. Sometimes the thief fails to find that poisoned needle,  fails his saving throw, and dies. Sometimes the magician loses the initiative roll, gets hit, and loses his only spell.

That's life in the dungeon. http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/smile.png


"The fear of death, its risk each time, is one of the most stimulating parts of the game. It therefore behooves the referee to include as many mystifying and dangerous areas as is consistent with a reasonable chance for survival." - J. Eric Holmes
 

Board footera

“Astonishing Swordsmen & Sorcerers of Hyperborea”, “AS&SH”, and all other North Wind Adventures product names and their respective logos are trademarks of North Wind Adventures, LLC in the USA and other countries. ©2018 North Wind Adventures, LLC.