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5/26/2015 11:12 pm  #1


Ape-Men *and* Vhuurmis - Redundant?

Are there ape-men in a CAS Hyperborea story that I haven't read yet? Does anyone else find the presence of both ape-men and vhuurmis redundant?

I'm tempted to just use vhuurmis in my Hyperborea (replacing ape-men with 'lesser' vhuurmis of 1+2 HD). Kor would be occupied by 'advanced' vhuurmis; cave-men would be reputed to be 'vhuurmis half-breeds'.

Thoughts?

 

5/27/2015 12:31 am  #2


Re: Ape-Men *and* Vhuurmis - Redundant?

I always pictured Voormis as more straight up hairy  Neandrethals and not necessarily ape-man like, which would be more akin to gorillas. (in my mind).

Here is some good description of Voormis from the Seven Geas by CAS

Few of these caverns could be reached by men without the use of ropes; and the Voormis, who were possessed of quasi-hunan cunning, would hurl blocks and rubble upon the heads of the assailants. Most of the caves were narrow and darksome, thus putting at a grave disadvantage the hunters who entered them; and the Voormis would fight redoubtably in defense of their young and their females, who dwelt in the inner recesses; and the females were fiercer and more pernicious, if possible, than the males.

As for the Voormis themselves, they were indeed a misbegotten species; but it was hardly necessary, in explaining their generation, to go beyond the familiar laws of nature. They were merely the remnant of a low and degraded tribe of aborigines, who, sinking further into brutehood, had sought refuge in those volcanic fastnesses after the coming of the true Hyperboreans.

They had spent the night beneath its lowermost crags, keeping a ceaseless watch, piling dead branches on their fires, and hearing on the grisly heights above them the wild and dog-like ululations of those subhuman savages, the Voormis for which the mountain was named. Also, they heard the bellowing of an alpine catoblepas pursued by the Voormis, and the mad snarling of a saber-tooth tiger assailed and dragged down; and Ralibar Vooz had deemed that these noises boded well for the morrow's hunting.He and his men rose betimes; and having breakfasted on their provisions of dried bear-meat and a dark sour wine that was noted far its invigorative qualities, they began immediately the ascent of the mountain, whose upper precipices were hollow with caves occupied by the Voormis. Ralibar Vooz had hunted these creatures before; and a certain room of his house in Commoriom was arrased with their thick and shaggy pelts.

Also, much was said regarding the genesis of the Voormis, who were popularly believed to be the offspring of women and certain atrocious creatures that had come forth in primal days from a tenebrous cavern-world in the bowels of Voormithadreth.

 Ralibar Vooz inferred that the buttress was inhabited by some person nearer to civilized humanity than the Voormis, who were quite ignorant of the use of fire.

Raphtontis rose toward the lowest cave, and hovered at its entrance while Ralibar Vooz climbed precariously behind him amid a heavy barrage of bones and glassedged flints and other oddments of less mentionable nature hurled by the Voormis. These low, brutal savages, fringing the dark mouths of the dens with their repulsive faces and members, greeted the hunter's progress with ferocious howlings and an inexhaustible supply of garbage.

They stood only half erect, and their shaggy heads were about his thighs and hips, snarling and snapping like dogs; and they clawed him with hook-shaped nails that caught and held in the links of his armor.


 


I filled my palace with deadly traps so trap admirers will come and visit me

AFS magazine - pulp literature meets old school gaming http://hallsoftizunthane.blogspot.com/
 

5/27/2015 1:27 pm  #3


Re: Ape-Men *and* Vhuurmis - Redundant?

kslacker wrote:

Are there ape-men in a CAS Hyperborea story that I haven't read yet? Does anyone else find the presence of both ape-men and vhuurmis redundant?

I'm tempted to just use vhuurmis in my Hyperborea (replacing ape-men with 'lesser' vhuurmis of 1+2 HD). Kor would be occupied by 'advanced' vhuurmis; cave-men would be reputed to be 'vhuurmis half-breeds'.

Thoughts?

I think you should do what you like. http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/happy.png

Speaking for myself, I don't think you can ever have too many monsters.  More specifically, I don't think you can ever have too many ape-like abominations.  I don't see it as redundancy, but rather as a horrid profusion of grotesque mockeries of mankind. http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/lol.png


"The fear of death, its risk each time, is one of the most stimulating parts of the game. It therefore behooves the referee to include as many mystifying and dangerous areas as is consistent with a reasonable chance for survival." - J. Eric Holmes
 

5/27/2015 5:23 pm  #4


Re: Ape-Men *and* Vhuurmis - Redundant?

Blackadder23 wrote:

I think you should do what you like. http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/happy.png

Speaking for myself, I don't think you can ever have too many monsters.  More specifically, I don't think you can ever have too many ape-like abominations.  I don't see it as redundancy, but rather as a horrid profusion of grotesque mockeries of mankind. http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/lol.png

Agreed. Moreover, the vhuurmis have a history quite distinct from humanity's while the ape-men seem more a product of humanity's presence. Setting-wise, they are very distinct.

 

5/27/2015 5:46 pm  #5


Re: Ape-Men *and* Vhuurmis - Redundant?

Yeah - I think I've gotten to all the Voormis references in Smith's writings, and don't recall any (other) ape-men in Hyperborea. The Vhurmis and Ape-Men in AS&SH just don't come across as sufficiently *different* for me.

And I *do* think you can have too many humanoid monster races. There should be plenty of one-off horrors to bedevil your characters with, but I prefer to keep the number of different humanoid species low.

     Thread Starter
 

5/27/2015 5:47 pm  #6


Re: Ape-Men *and* Vhuurmis - Redundant?

Maybe I just need to picture the Vhurmis a little differently, something like the Yog-Blogsoth picture - less ape-like...

     Thread Starter
 

5/27/2015 5:57 pm  #7


Re: Ape-Men *and* Vhuurmis - Redundant?

I don't think the ape-men were inspired by anything in Smith's writings.  They're just a common S&S trope.  The closest examples from the source fiction that come to my mind would probably be the white apes in HPL's "Arthur Jermyn" and maybe the grey apes from Howard's Conan stories.


"The fear of death, its risk each time, is one of the most stimulating parts of the game. It therefore behooves the referee to include as many mystifying and dangerous areas as is consistent with a reasonable chance for survival." - J. Eric Holmes
 

5/27/2015 9:56 pm  #8


Re: Ape-Men *and* Vhuurmis - Redundant?

Grey apes from REH, a dash of ER Burroughs, maybe some Planet of the Apes and a bit of 2001: A Space Odyssey, too. Throw them all together, and you've got the general idea of what a mish-mash of ideas my personal vision of Hyperborea is. You can use what you like, discard what does not fit your own idea for the setting. One thing to keep in mind, kslacker, is that the Hyperborea of AS&SH is not intended to be a facsimilie of CAS' Hyperborea. Enjoy!


Astonishing Swordsmen & Sorcerers of Hyperborea - A Role-Playing Game of Swords, Sorcery, and Weird Fantasy
 

5/28/2015 7:54 am  #9


Re: Ape-Men *and* Vhuurmis - Redundant?

I see the difference as this.  Vhuurmis were apish creatures that once ruled Hyperborea and were this close to becoming true men.  Then the human Hyperboreans came and drove them into the darkness, where the Vhuurmis degenerated back into sheer savagery.  But they still have some ancestral memory and resentment of their lost status, and hate mankind for it.  So I add a little of the "children of the night" from Howard's Pictish stories to Smith's actual Voormis.

Ape-men, on the other hand, are apes who aspire to one day become men, or at least to mock men.  Almost the opposite of Vhuurmis, really.

Again, I myself feel you can't have too many monsters - whether examples of a type are unique, rare, fairly common, or cover the land in a hideous profusion.  If you really intend to invent different unusual monsters for your players to meet every week, please post them! http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/smile.png


"The fear of death, its risk each time, is one of the most stimulating parts of the game. It therefore behooves the referee to include as many mystifying and dangerous areas as is consistent with a reasonable chance for survival." - J. Eric Holmes
 

6/03/2015 11:56 pm  #10


Re: Ape-Men *and* Vhuurmis - Redundant?

Okay; I'd buy that. Vhuurmis and Ape-Men are different enough in theme to be separate monsters. I *do* intend on using the Yog-Blogsoth imagery for Vhuurmis to differentiate them from the Ape-Men. They're tragic degenerates from a former age of glory, while Ape-Men might be an attempted *improvement* over humans. (Third time's the charm.)

It does beg the question - who is the patron of the Advanced Ape-Men of Kor?

     Thread Starter
 

11/17/2015 8:36 pm  #11


Re: Ape-Men *and* Vhuurmis - Redundant?

For me it comes down to flavour and intelligence. I've used Vhuurmis as wilderness raiders with (slightly) more intelligence than an ape; they are evil bastards. Ape's by contrast are merely wild animals. It's kind of like the difference between an orc and an ape. Could you use both for the same thing? Sure. But they both add a distinct flavour. 

 

11/17/2015 10:33 pm  #12


Re: Ape-Men *and* Vhuurmis - Redundant?

The Vhuurmis in my current adventure just wiped out a neighbouring Ape-Men enclave. Turns out they consider the Ape-Men as double usurpers and despise them even more than humans.

     Thread Starter
 

11/18/2015 12:38 pm  #13


Re: Ape-Men *and* Vhuurmis - Redundant?

kslacker wrote:

The Vhuurmis in my current adventure just wiped out a neighbouring Ape-Men enclave. Turns out they consider the Ape-Men as double usurpers and despise them even more than humans.

Makes total sense. Haters gonna hate, daemons gonna gate.

 

11/18/2015 6:57 pm  #14


Re: Ape-Men *and* Vhuurmis - Redundant?

Handy Haversack wrote:

kslacker wrote:

The Vhuurmis in my current adventure just wiped out a neighbouring Ape-Men enclave. Turns out they consider the Ape-Men as double usurpers and despise them even more than humans.

Makes total sense. Haters gonna hate, daemons gonna gate.

The man's a poet.
And doesn't know it.
 


"The fear of death, its risk each time, is one of the most stimulating parts of the game. It therefore behooves the referee to include as many mystifying and dangerous areas as is consistent with a reasonable chance for survival." - J. Eric Holmes
 

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