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5/05/2014 11:53 am  #1


Combat Sequence Initative

I was just looking at the Initative rules and that part with the two phases has always confused me. Now that I've read it again, I think there might be a different meaning that what I originally saw.

"On each combat round, each side takes turns at each phase in order of initative."

So let's say the PC win initative and go first. PC #1 stays stationary and short an arrow, PC #2 makes a full move and attacks. Enemy #1 stays stationary and casts a spell, enemy #2 also makes a full move and attacks.
Do they act in the order PC #1, Enemy #1, PC #2, Enemy #2?


"Steel isn't strong, boy. Flesh is stronger. What is steel compared to the hand that wields it?"

Spriggan's Den
 

5/05/2014 11:56 am  #2


Re: Combat Sequence Initative

Yes! You have it exactly correct.


HYPERBOREA- A Role-Playing Game of Swords, Sorcery, and Weird Science-Fantasy
 

5/05/2014 12:05 pm  #3


Re: Combat Sequence Initative

Alright, that should make things interesting.
Still a bit confusing now, but I think it shouldn't be too hard to do once you've done it a couple of times.

Last edited by Yora (5/05/2014 12:11 pm)


"Steel isn't strong, boy. Flesh is stronger. What is steel compared to the hand that wields it?"

Spriggan's Den
     Thread Starter
 

5/05/2014 12:08 pm  #4


Re: Combat Sequence Initative

You'll get used to it. Of course, I have the benefit of having done it since 2009 now, so it's all second nature to me. Where I get stalled now is when I run AD&D 1e and the abstraction is so much more emphasized: move 20 feet and attack? That takes 2 minutes!


HYPERBOREA- A Role-Playing Game of Swords, Sorcery, and Weird Science-Fantasy
 

5/05/2014 12:11 pm  #5


Re: Combat Sequence Initative

Asuming a magician and a bear start a fight. Magician wants to move half distance and then cast a spell (acting in phase #2). The bear wants to move half distance and attack (acting in phase #1).
If the magician wins initative, does the bear get to attack him anyway? It seems so.

If a character only moves, does he get to act in both phases?

Last edited by Yora (5/05/2014 12:12 pm)


"Steel isn't strong, boy. Flesh is stronger. What is steel compared to the hand that wields it?"

Spriggan's Den
     Thread Starter
 

5/05/2014 6:24 pm  #6


Re: Combat Sequence Initative

Yora wrote:

Asuming a magician and a bear start a fight. Magician wants to move half distance and then cast a spell (acting in phase #2). The bear wants to move half distance and attack (acting in phase #1).
If the magician wins initative, does the bear get to attack him anyway? It seems so.

If a character only moves, does he get to act in both phases?

It took me a little while to get it after coming from AD&D/D20/D&D 4th ed., etc. But, yeah, phase order trumps initiative. As for movement, I would say it occurs in two phases - half in the first phase and the remainder (plus whatever action) in the second,

 

5/05/2014 7:32 pm  #7


Re: Combat Sequence Initative

Yora wrote:

Asuming a magician and a bear start a fight. Magician wants to move half distance and then cast a spell (acting in phase #2). The bear wants to move half distance and attack (acting in phase #1).
If the magician wins initative, does the bear get to attack him anyway? It seems so.

Yes, but it would be a foolish move by the player, I think! Best to stay stationary. In this type of cicrumstance, I would tell the player that the bear is moving in for the kill. I would give the player a quick chance to change his or her mind.



If a character only moves, does he get to act in both phases?

I'm not sure what you mean by "act" in this case. If you mean just move, sure, that would be a full movement, using his regular MV.
 


HYPERBOREA- A Role-Playing Game of Swords, Sorcery, and Weird Science-Fantasy
 

5/05/2014 7:34 pm  #8


Re: Combat Sequence Initative

NAJones wrote:

Yora wrote:

Asuming a magician and a bear start a fight. Magician wants to move half distance and then cast a spell (acting in phase #2). The bear wants to move half distance and attack (acting in phase #1).
If the magician wins initative, does the bear get to attack him anyway? It seems so.

If a character only moves, does he get to act in both phases?

It took me a little while to get it after coming from AD&D/D20/D&D 4th ed., etc. But, yeah, phase order trumps initiative. As for movement, I would say it occurs in two phases - half in the first phase and the remainder (plus whatever action) in the second,

Yes, this. Sorry, I didn't notice the reply by NAJones before I replied.
 


HYPERBOREA- A Role-Playing Game of Swords, Sorcery, and Weird Science-Fantasy
 

5/06/2014 2:23 pm  #9


Re: Combat Sequence Initative

I am beginning work on a printable sheet that will hopefully help you and your players easily adopt the AS&SH turn sequence.

 

5/06/2014 2:42 pm  #10


Re: Combat Sequence Initative

Also, one of the things I intend to do with the next printing of the game is display some combat examples, so folks can see the sequence at work.


HYPERBOREA- A Role-Playing Game of Swords, Sorcery, and Weird Science-Fantasy
 

5/06/2014 2:56 pm  #11


Re: Combat Sequence Initative

Ghul wrote:

Also, one of the things I intend to do with the next printing of the game is display some combat examples, so folks can see the sequence at work.

That's an excellent idea, Ghul.

I also had trouble wrapping my brain around the combat sequence. I started using a small dry-erase board divided horizontally into phases, much as displayed in the combat section of the book. I ask the players what they intend and jot those down in the appropriate area. Its been really helpful in keeping track of actions and the (slightly) more complicated combat round.

Ghul, how do you handle a character who wants to change his action, due to changed circumstances or inability? I generally simply make them take the last action in the round, just wanted to hear your technique.


ravengodgames.blogspot.com ~ cartography, writing, game design
Author, Forgotten Fane of the Coiled Goddess
 

5/06/2014 3:09 pm  #12


Re: Combat Sequence Initative

It all depends:

Example One:
"I'm moving in to attack with my halberd." Then, later, "Wait, I changed my mind. I'm going to stay put and drink this potion." My decison would be: END OF ROUND (phase 2).

Example Two:
Player: "I'm going to stay put and shoot my bow." Then later, "I changed my mind, I want to move in and swing my broad sword."
Me: "You already have your bow out and and an arrow in your fingertips. Are you willing to drop the bow to the ground and unsheath your sword as you step froward to attack?" If the player says yes, I will not penalize. If he or she says no, I would say END OF ROUND (phase 2).
 


HYPERBOREA- A Role-Playing Game of Swords, Sorcery, and Weird Science-Fantasy
 

5/06/2014 4:03 pm  #13


Re: Combat Sequence Initative

I only ask the players to say what action they want to take, they are free to pick their target when they get their turn. Moving to a different place, attacking a different enemy, and so on.
They can't chose to cast a different spell or drink a different potion, as all action happens simultaneously and start at the same time. The only change that can be made is to skip acting at all.
Not quite sure if that should waste a started spell, yet.


"Steel isn't strong, boy. Flesh is stronger. What is steel compared to the hand that wields it?"

Spriggan's Den
     Thread Starter
 

5/06/2014 8:17 pm  #14


Re: Combat Sequence Initative

Ghul, will you please shed some light on this passage from the rules, perhaps with an example or two?"If a melee combatant is entitled to multiple attacks, these may be made together; i.e., if a fighter with two attacks has won initiative against the monster he faces, he may make both attacks before the monster."

 

5/06/2014 10:13 pm  #15


Re: Combat Sequence Initative

Maezar wrote:

Ghul, will you please shed some light on this passage from the rules, perhaps with an example or two?"If a melee combatant is entitled to multiple attacks, these may be made together; i.e., if a fighter with two attacks has won initiative against the monster he faces, he may make both attacks before the monster."

Maybe with special attention to whether you think said fighter can make an attack, do something else, and then make her other attack. Or whether they can be directed at different targets. And how two-weapon fighting interacts. And how many licks, Tootsie Pop, etc.

 

5/07/2014 2:20 am  #16


Re: Combat Sequence Initative

I'm sure Jeff will give a more definitive answer, but i've generally not allowed Figthers with more than one attack to do anything else between their attacks (except maybe switch targets in certain situations). Two-weapon fighting not been an issue so far, but i think i would go the same way.

The combat sequence has taken some getting used to by my players but now they've adapted fairly well and have began adapting their tactics as well. As a DM i love the system as it makes fights a much less monotonous affair, the secuence around the table adapting to the situation and the tactics used. It is also easier for me to make ad-hoc rulings if the situation or just the drama and fun of a situation demands it.


Níu man ek heima, níu íviðjur,
mjötvið mæran fyr mold neðan.
(Völuspá)
(Nine worlds I knew,the nine in the tree with mighty roots beneath the mold)
Realmsofmelpomene
 

5/07/2014 3:24 am  #17


Re: Combat Sequence Initative

Seems quite obvious to me. If you have two attacks per round and only attack but don't move, you can make both attacks in phase 1. Even with more than one attack, you don't have to split them between phase 1 and phase 2.

Good to point that out Maezar, I had been wondering about this last time we played and the fighter got his two attacks against 1 HD creatures.


"Steel isn't strong, boy. Flesh is stronger. What is steel compared to the hand that wields it?"

Spriggan's Den
     Thread Starter
 

5/07/2014 8:00 am  #18


Re: Combat Sequence Initative

I think this is a good summary:

Even with more than one attack, you don't have to split them between phase 1 and phase 2.

 

5/07/2014 8:10 am  #19


Re: Combat Sequence Initative

I feel it's spelled out well enough on page 212 in the "melee and movement" section, but if it's not so obvious to fine fellows such as yourselves, that tells me I have to do a better job to convey it, because you are seasoned gamers, and it should be made clear enough for amateur gamers to get a grip on it.

Melee and Movement: Melee may occur before, during, and after movement; it is the most flexible form of combat. A melee combatant may move ½ and make his attack(s) on phase one, or move full and make his attack(s) on phase two. Alternatively, a melee combatant may make his attack(s) on phase one and move ½ on phase two, if his opponent is slain or otherwise incapacitated; otherwise, his opponent may make an automatic attack at +2 “to hit” (see COMBAT, attack modifiers). Furthermore, if a melee combatant is allowed 2 attacks in the round, he may move ½ and make an attack on phase one, then move ½ and make a second attack on phase two. Again, this assumes the first opponent is slain or incapacitated; otherwise the initial opponent may make an automatic attack at +2 “to hit”.


HYPERBOREA- A Role-Playing Game of Swords, Sorcery, and Weird Science-Fantasy
 

5/07/2014 1:35 pm  #20


Re: Combat Sequence Initative

Ghul wrote:

It all depends:

Example One:
"I'm moving in to attack with my halberd." Then, later, "Wait, I changed my mind. I'm going to stay put and drink this potion." My decison would be: END OF ROUND (phase 2).

Example Two:
Player: "I'm going to stay put and shoot my bow." Then later, "I changed my mind, I want to move in and swing my broad sword."
Me: "You already have your bow out and and an arrow in your fingertips. Are you willing to drop the bow to the ground and unsheath your sword as you step froward to attack?" If the player says yes, I will not penalize. If he or she says no, I would say END OF ROUND (phase 2).
 

Thanks for your comments, that is pretty much where I am as well.


ravengodgames.blogspot.com ~ cartography, writing, game design
Author, Forgotten Fane of the Coiled Goddess
 

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